Need answers from ANY 03-06 TJ OWNERS

[cocco78]

OK, I don't get it - what in the hell does anybody need 38" tires and 6"+ of lift for on a backcountry expedition and exploration vehicle? Sounds more like the makings of a rockcrawler or mud toy to me.

You don't need that... In my case I really enjoy rockcrawling so my Jeep reflects my particular tastes. I want to have a vehicle that can handle a 1000 mile trip but still be able to hit a 5+ rated trail at an off-road park. So at least with me its a bit more dual purpose then most of the rigs on this board.

To the original poster...

If you want to see more pics check out some of my albums here, lotsa pics: http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l98/cocco78/

Here is my Jeep with the 38" swampers on it, its a trailer queen with these things tho. They don't go down the road well at all past 40mph!

My Jeep handles just fine at highway speeds, I would drive it anywhere anytime. It does not drive like a stock Jeep tho! Its got a bit more body roll around corners, again a trade off for off road performance. I run 37x13.50r17 toyo's on H2 rims, the rim with the most weights on it has around 2.5oz. They roll perfect down the highway. I also run Rubicon Express 3.5" coil springs and Bilstien shocks. I would stay away from rough country, there springs are junk, hard riding, poor quality. They are pretty much the bottom of the line, cheapest stuff you can buy. This is an area you don't want to skimp on, money spent here is money well spent. You also should go with long arms, its the only way to go to get a decent ride and flex...

Check out: http://www.claytonoffroad.com/index.php

Oh and I wouldn't go with a huge lift either, go with the lower springs because you'll be swapping to physically larger axles so that adds a bit of lift as well. Keep you COG low for best handling, trim your fenders to make them fit....

People are always amazed at how well my Jeep drives for what it is. But then again I have a scary amount of money it the thing! Its not the perfect setup really for any 1 thing, but it works. I'm not sure why everyone thinks its going to be so terrible on gas, I get better mileage with this thing than most of the other people I wheel with. My dead stock gmc sierra may get 18 or 19 on the highway but will get stuck on wet grass, and only get 12-14 around town or cruising back roads. My Jeep will do 14-15 on the highway and 13 or so in town and in the woods. Just filled it up today and got 13.5 with about half the miles on 2 lane county roads and half in town.

I'm not defending the original poster tho, your young and have alot to learn even if you think you know what your doing. Go have fun build your Jeep and learn from your mistakes, you will learn alot of what not to do during your build. There is nothing saying you can't change it later on. I know my next Jeep is not going to be built anywhere near the level my current one is, i'm thinking 32's max...

 

[DrMoab]

OK, I don't get it - what in the hell does anybody need 38" tires and 6"+ of lift for on a backcountry expedition and exploration vehicle? Sounds more like the makings of a rockcrawler or mud toy to me.

Need and want are two seperate things. Why can't he have both? Why look down your nose at him because his views of what the perfect rig is doesn't jive with yours?

I seldom hit hard trails with my Jeep anymore but I built it so it can handle anything I want to do with it and not feel afraid I'm going to tear a hole in the oil pan.

It's a free country and lucky for us they haven't taken our right to build our vehicles the way we want away from us yet.

 

[computeruser]

Need and want are two seperate things. Why can't he have both? Why look down your nose at him because his views of what the perfect rig is doesn't jive with yours?

It's a free country and lucky for us they haven't taken our right to build our vehicles the way we want away from us yet.

Correct, they are separate things and folks are free to do as they please. But I think the question is still valid - I do not know of many places where one needs 38" tires to get around, and for a young guy in high school, I can think of a LOT of better ways to spend some hard-earned dollars than on 38" tires. Not trying to be a buzz-kill, just trying to share some wisdom; I spent lots of money on crap when I was that age that, in hindsight, meant the difference between having the cash to get out and actually do stuff, and having a "cool" vehicle sitting in the garage on jack stands, waiting for the next whiz-bang part I could barely afford working at the hardware store and doing lawn service work.

Heck, I remember back when 33" tires were the "big tire" upgrade for CJs and YJs, and last time I checked, folks still got out and explored the backcountry just fine with those. They just avoided trouble, instead of seeking it out. Perhaps there is a lesson to be taken in this? Maybe at least a bit, given the political landscape as it relates to off-pavement travel and exploration?

There is a lot of pressure on folks, especially younger guys, to out-do the next guy with bigger this and taller that when they start building up their vehicles. It isn't written anywhere that I'm aware of that buying into this pressure is necessary, but the voice of moderation is often drowned out by the cry of testosterone. Just trying to be the voice of the other point of view here.

 

[ExpoGeorgia]

Well if the funds are there, build away :smiley_drive:


I'd start with a set of AT LEAST D44's. Possibly waggy, maybe converted JK set-up. (a lot of JK owners step up to D60's)

I would strongly suggest however that you go with 1-ton axles. You can pull 14 bolts from just about any junkyard for next to nothing. You may have to rebuild it but it'll still come out cheaper than any brand name complete axles.

For the front, you'll need a drivers drop, Ford or late model dodge are usually a good place to start looking. Again, need to be rebuilt/ shaved/ brackets re-done.

It depends on your mechanical skillz but if you want to do this on a budget, you'll have to do most of the labor yourself. How are you at welding?

Thank you for the information! So do you sugguest Dana 60 front and Dana 70 rear, or front and rear 60? I know of a 1988 Chevy 1 ton that I can pull Dana 60 front and rear axles off of if that can work. Also, since the axle will raise the vehicle up a good bit what size suspension/body lift would you recommend for the desired height that compares to the 6 inch lift on 38? I am currently in an automotive class and the most I have welded is an exhaust manifold. Pretty inexperianced but I've got the resources to help me out with it if needed.

OK, I don't get it - what in the hell does anybody need 38" tires and 6"+ of lift for on a backcountry expedition and exploration vehicle? Sounds more like the makings of a rockcrawler or mud toy to me.

Personal preference maybe... or maybe its the fact that I want a well rounded 4x4 which has highway capabilities along with enough clearance to go over logs and underbrush on the backroads I drive daily. :truck:

You don't need that... In my case I really enjoy rockcrawling so my Jeep reflects my particular tastes. I want to have a vehicle that can handle a 1000 mile trip but still be able to hit a 5+ rated trail at an off-road park. So at least with me its a bit more dual purpose then most of the rigs on this board.

To the original poster...

If you want to see more pics check out some of my albums here, lotsa pics: http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l98/cocco78/

Here is my Jeep with the 38" swampers on it, its a trailer queen with these things tho. They don't go down the road well at all past 40mph!

My Jeep handles just fine at highway speeds, I would drive it anywhere anytime. It does not drive like a stock Jeep tho! Its got a bit more body roll around corners, again a trade off for off road performance. I run 37x13.50r17 toyo's on H2 rims, the rim with the most weights on it has around 2.5oz. They roll perfect down the highway. I also run Rubicon Express 3.5" coil springs and Bilstien shocks. I would stay away from rough country, there springs are junk, hard riding, poor quality. They are pretty much the bottom of the line, cheapest stuff you can buy. This is an area you don't want to skimp on, money spent here is money well spent. You also should go with long arms, its the only way to go to get a decent ride and flex...

Check out: http://www.claytonoffroad.com/index.php

Oh and I wouldn't go with a huge lift either, go with the lower springs because you'll be swapping to physically larger axles so that adds a bit of lift as well. Keep you COG low for best handling, trim your fenders to make them fit....

People are always amazed at how well my Jeep drives for what it is. But then again I have a scary amount of money it the thing! Its not the perfect setup really for any 1 thing, but it works. I'm not sure why everyone thinks its going to be so terrible on gas, I get better mileage with this thing than most of the other people I wheel with. My dead stock gmc sierra may get 18 or 19 on the highway but will get stuck on wet grass, and only get 12-14 around town or cruising back roads. My Jeep will do 14-15 on the highway and 13 or so in town and in the woods. Just filled it up today and got 13.5 with about half the miles on 2 lane county roads and half in town.

I'm not defending the original poster tho, your young and have alot to learn even if you think you know what your doing. Go have fun build your Jeep and learn from your mistakes, you will learn alot of what not to do during your build. There is nothing saying you can't change it later on. I know my next Jeep is not going to be built anywhere near the level my current one is, i'm thinking 32's max...

Thank you for your personal experiance with your rig and also the link. That is exactly what I am aiming for... a dual purpose rig that can be used in a variety of both on and off road situations.

As far as the suspension, pending on how much of a rise in height I'd be getting from the 1 ton Dana axles, what size lift would you sugguest? I know that I have to keep the center of gravity low so are there any sites that have a calculator to factor in the vehicles size, height, and gear to show how much weight should be distributed ontop of the rig to keep a tolorable cog? Tubbed fender flares look mean and are very functional. Also, what motor do you have because that plays a factor in your fuel mileage. I guess because people see the 37-38's, they have the false perception that the weight will bring your mpg down tremendously. I don't know all of the answers, but I'm willing to listen, learn, and apply certain things. I am pretty new to Jeeps however have experiance from the diesel world so maybe I can integrate some of the idea's/methods both use. Thanks

Need and want are two seperate things. Why can't he have both? Why look down your nose at him because his views of what the perfect rig is doesn't jive with yours?

I seldom hit hard trails with my Jeep anymore but I built it so it can handle anything I want to do with it and not feel afraid I'm going to tear a hole in the oil pan.

It's a free country and lucky for us they haven't taken our right to build our vehicles the way we want away from us yet.

Thanks for the comment. People have to understand that everyone thinks differently, so my use for this vehicle may make my desires of the set up rational compared to the intented use of yours.

 

[cocco78]

Thank you for your personal experiance with your rig and also the link. That is exactly what I am aiming for... a dual purpose rig that can be used in a variety of both on and off road situations.

As far as the suspension, pending on how much of a rise in height I'd be getting from the 1 ton Dana axles, what size lift would you sugguest? I know that I have to keep the center of gravity low so are there any sites that have a calculator to factor in the vehicles size, height, and gear to show how much weight should be distributed ontop of the rig to keep a tolorable cog? Tubbed fender flares look mean and are very functional. Also, what motor do you have because that plays a factor in your fuel mileage. I guess because people see the 37-38's, they have the false perception that the weight will bring your mpg down tremendously. I don't know all of the answers, but I'm willing to listen, learn, and apply certain things. I am pretty new to Jeeps however have experiance from the diesel world so maybe I can integrate some of the idea's/methods both use. Thanks

The thing with keeping it low and going 1 ton axles is you need alot of room for steering, track bar, sway bars, ect... Unless you want to limit your uptravel. Your going from a D30 front axle with an axle tube dia of say 2.5" to a D60 that has a 3.5" tube dia, so your looking at an easy 1/2" right there. Then depending on how you build your spring mounts, ect.. I have seen people use stock hight springs and run 40's so its alot of trial and error. Like I said I use 3.5" RE springs and feel like it on the high end of almost perfect, it would be pretty hard to fit all the steering stuff in with less lift and still have any uptravel, as it sits now I have about 4 or so before I hit bumpstops. Its really hard to pick a spring height when your doing a custom build, but what you do is basically pick a ride height you want and try to find a spring that will give you that.

I am running a dead stock 4.0L I6, really your only engine choice other than a 4 cyl which you should not even consider. I won't modify the motor at for reliability reasons, the I6 is a great motor. The big tires will hurt your mileage, but if you gear it right and you keep things in good shape you can eek out some mpg's.

If your looking for axles, it was mentioned before either ford or dodge front axles, you need the diff on the drivers side. GM will have the front diff on the pass side. 78 or 79 F350's are hard to find but if you do front and rear D60's, the front is a kingpin too! 85 and newer F350's also have D60 fronts in either ball joint or king pins varieties, kingpins are stronger but its not like the ball joint versions are week... For rear axles the 60 is ok, the GM 14 bolt seems to be stronger. 85 and newer fords will have a steerling rear axle which is strong but aftermarket parts are few and far between. I would stay away from dodge front axles, pre 93 front axles are probably D61's which are strange and come with really high highway gears, and won't accept lower gears... 94 and up have a axle disconnect and 2 pc axle shafts on the pass side. I would avoid all of that, its a hassle. I randomly found a D70 rear axle from an early 80's ford E350 van and ended up using it. Its way overkill.

I actually would advise you to spend many many hours over at www.pirate4x4.com and learn as much as you can. It has so much info and everything has already been done over there. Just don't ask questions over there like you do here or they will really lay into you, they don't like newbies. There are so many different builds to follow you'll have an info overload. I still spend hours on that site reading up on different builds.

i'm actually building a Jeep truck for my wife as well with D60's just as a wheeling/plowing/hauling around the property kinda thing. I'm using 4.5" coils on this one. Here are a few pics. I make all the parts myself, I have a welder, a plasma cutter, drill press, grinders, all kinds of tools. The rear axle is a plain old D60, the front is a high pinion kingpin dana 60 from an 88 F350.

 

[brennanriddle1]

I couldn't explain in text how much there is involved with a full size axle-swap. I suggest you do some serious research.


There is a ton of information on 1-ton builds and suspension geometry and such over on www.pirate4x4.com

Check the jeep-hardcore tech section. But be advised, they won't be as nice to you as we were here..

 

[NOMADIC_LJ]

Check the jeep-hardcore tech section. But be advised, they won't be as nice to you as we were here..

I don't believe you! I was on jeep-hardcore and asked if I can run 38" tires on my stock D35 and they were very nice to me:sombrero::sombrero:

 

[brennanriddle1]

Haha it's is entertaining to read some of those threads.

They get :violent-smiley-031:

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

Here's some pics of my old 04 Unlimited.

Three linked in the front with bump stops, four linked in the rear on 37"s. The only non custom part of the suspension was a Rubicon Express skid plate. I drove the snot out if it and it didn't have Dana 60's. It did have Chromolly 33 splined axles (44's front and rear), an Atlas T-case and 4.88's though.

I never broke any of the axle's or drivetrain and that included towing a trailer of the Rubicon.

AS far as your question on road manners; Your wanting a short wheel based, high rig. Of course it's going to be loose feeling. You just have to be familiar with your vehicle and how it handles.

 

[nwoods]

My 2005 LJ is a Ruby on 4.5" Currie short arm lift with 1" body lift rolling on 35" tires. I have AEV progressive springs in rear, on Nth Degree spring relocation perches, and Currie 4.5" springs up front. I also have the Off Road Only U-Turn steering and Off Road Only pneumatic swaybar disconnect at the front. My rig rides very well on the road, but with the stock 4:11 gearing, it does poorly with gas (4.0L lump), averaging between 8 and 10 mpg depending on wind and hills.

It is MUCH roomier than the TJ's, and the motor is near bulletproof. The Rubicon transmission (auto) works great, as does the transfer case. I could not go with any taller lift without incurring significant expense, and I can stuff my 35" until they rub ever so slightly right now and get decent flex out of it.

I don't drive with a heavy foot in the rocks, and expect the factory lockers and axles to last me a while. I've already done the Rubicon and more interesting trails like Motino Wash and various situations in Cougar Buttes.

 

[wardrow]

With what you are trying to build, You should probably be posting your questions to a much more friendly rock-crawling group like www.rubiconownersforum.com

 

[NOMADIC_LJ]

^^^^^Beautiful rig and pictures Nathen!