Obsessed2findARuggedHybid
Well-known member
Ya but what about the bed buds and stale bagles. I don't think there are to many Doubletree s in the far away places we like to roam
Need help: Which trailer works best for us?
- Thread starter goodol
- Start date
Ya but what about the bed buds and stale bagles. I don't think there are to many Doubletree s in the far away places we like to roam
Obsessed2findARuggedHybid
Well-known member
Okay Goodol we're are you in trailer choice s.
Would you consider a small toyhauler type set up with ramp/deck door? If you just have light toys like bicycle s and what not you can really spec the inside better
Would you consider a small toyhauler type set up with ramp/deck door? If you just have light toys like bicycle s and what not you can really spec the inside better
goawaymore
Member
Take a deep breath. This wasn't a comment regarding your choice of brand of sailboat. If you feel that I mis-represented Elan (although I'm pretty sure that Airstream is still a well respected company in the larger overlanding world), I apologize. And if you have some deep need to swap stories on who actually has what cv within the sailing and racing world, and you're the sailer you claim to be, then you already know which sailing forums we all hang out at.
My comment was that campers are not the only industry where we all see costs that we once thought were nuts. Sailboats are equally nuts to overland campers and vehicles. There are some cost savings on production line boats vs small batch builds, but even the sail away price of a production sailboat is orders of magnitude over what custom sailboats were a couple decades ago. Systems and capabilities have all increased at the same time, so there is added functionality and reliability that follows, but it is still hard to get your head around the up front cost. If we all went back 20 years ago, we'd be horrified by what we currently pay to buy and modify tow vehicles!
My second comment was that brand new builds (by an existing builder) are really closer to a custom build than a production build with respect to a "reasonable and realistic" cost. Again, true for sailboats, or any widget, too. Until you have all the design modifications sorted out, system integration completed, and all bugs worked out, it's hard to know the true future build costs and where you can find cost savings. So while we can all guess at the motivation of builders and brokers, not all seemingly absurd high unit pricing is automatically profit padding or price gouging. Although sadly much is.
You said it yourself...."A box on wheels most definitely is not even remotely like any engineered certified yacht". I agree completely. But that's also why no 35'-ish well built new sailboat costs $140k in new sail away pricing. It's significantly more expensive than any of these campers, and for a good reason, as you correctly stated. Similar forum discussions and arguments about absurd pricing and manufacturer/design decisions exist on the sailing forums. Guessing they also exist on dozens of other high end product forums too!
And to the OP....apologies, my last post, and this one, are well off topic from your question. I have some of the same hopes/requirements that you have and also live on the east coast (although my kids are older). What I found was that there was no camper that met all of those requirements, at least not well, or at least not without going to some custom build that I couldn't afford. We found the Karavan to be the best set of trade-offs for us. The no canvas option was important for the cold days/nights, but we also had to accept that the Karavan is not a true 4 season camper. And getting into a garage with no canvas and with standing head height (our requirement, not yours), is even more limiting in choices. The Karavan can work for 4 people at the age your kids are at, but we've given in to the reality that our college age kids will be in a tent when they join us (which makes cold weather less appealing for them!). And as you say, the Karavan is not the best option from a pricing standpoint. I think listing all of your requirements by priority would help so that you know (as a family) where you are willing to trade off must-haves for nice-to-have-but-can-live-without-for-now. And I think going into it knowing that more and more interesting options are finally showing up in the market, helps to reduce the concern about whether this works 5-10 years from now. And I'm really jealous that your list of potential trailers didn't exist when my kids were 4 and 6! Good luck with the search. Your kids are going to love any/all of those options!
Alloy
Well-known member
Start with something used because you won't know how you'll use it untill you try it.
I've owned now, 4 airstreams. I've yet to sell one without netting a profit after a few years of use. They hold their value very well. Yes, you'll read about issues. They are a hand built product so there are always small niggles. To most Overlanders, turning a wrench or screwdrivers isn't an issue. As you weigh your options, I'd certainly consider how well a trailer holds the value. - DJ
ROA-OFFROAD
Supporting Sponsor / Approved Vendor
The USA is simply not used to high end campers like other countries are. Bruder's go for 200k (USD), zone RV 150-160k, Kedron 160k and these prices don't including shipping to the USA or a 15 month wait time AND NONE OF THEM ARE 4 SEASONS. On top of that, none of them have the specs that this trailer does. Going by specs alone we should probably charge more for this trailer. Not everyone wants to have high end things, thats perfectly fine. I feel like everyone is seeing a Porsche for the first time and wondering why it doesn't cost the same as a Toyota corolla. They both have their place in the market. This is a high end trailer that is using the best components and engineering possible to build an elite, world class trailer.
We will release a full walkthrough on the trailer soon talking about the unique construction, its 4 season capabilities, and why this trailer will change the standards in the USA market.
Obsessed2findARuggedHybid
Well-known member
I am sorry I am just not buying your comparison or reasoning here especially on your statement that you should charge more. I do think this trailer so far appears to be a very nice speced rig. It has a few specs that are not top of the line. Any off road trailer that is deemed " the best in the world " should have a galvanized chassis, a top of the line awning, the Go Power inverter/charger controler is not top of the line. It has a RV full size bed. After hearing about the QC issues that IO has had with the X22 I am just not buying that they have the ability to build a trailer like a Bruder. Before the X22 came out they only finished ice houses which is were most of the QC issues happen. Just because you say this trailer is the best and worth more then 125k does not make it so. All this said this trailer could end up being awesome just not buying 125k is a good deal. From what I have heard you we surprised of the msrp on the 145
Obsessed2findARuggedHybid
Well-known member
I am afraid Goodal string here is getting over run. Sorry Goodal. I didn't want to speak out of line but I believe you implied that 125k plus is not in you budget so I just wondered if the Boreas is still your top contender?
rehammer81
Active member
Also my apologies to the OP. If anything they are getting a lot to think about to make their decision.
Obsessed2find pretty much covered my rebuttal to the exotic European sports car analogy ROA keeps trying to spin. I'll also add that when talking about exotic Euro sports cars to run of the mill Toyota/Ford/Chevys, we are talking about real tech advancements. High performance tuned engines. Dynamic suspensions with complex control systems. A lot rooted from race technology. I'll give you the Toyota to Lexus analogy. We aren't saying these latest trailers aren't nice but Obsessed pointed out some "less than best" points already. A static air bladder trailing arm suspension isn't advanced tech. Nice. Above average for sure. Doesn't the Bruder have a dynamic suspension? I may be wrong on that. Isn't Bruder a one piece shell to reduce potential for leaking seams? Tip of the hat for improving insulation and wall construction to be 4 season. Is it worth more. Absolutely. Hardly novel to justify the kind of price increases we are seeing. You didn't figure out how to get modern home level insulation in an RV wall. That would be real novel advancement.
As for the extreme solar power system. Cool. Expensive. Would be more impressive if truly using the top of the line components. Again, not anything new. Just quantity. Anyone could technically put that system on a $25k trailer given the space. Your battery bank and solar system with a charge controller and inverter aren't some new and novel advancement to the RV industry.
As for the cost of mfg materials argument, that is fair only to a point. The off-road trailer market prices were insane before our recent world supply chain issues. When/if materials start to come down, will they reduce the price? Doubtful. Also, the materials are going to be the same or very close to that of the X22. Pretty big price discrepancy between the X22 and the new Xplore and Roamer 1 models. I think the X145 would be the closest comparison to the X22. I think that is a $45k delta off the top of my head. Is the X145 really $45k better than the X22?
There will be people that will pay the price and continue to enable and perpetuate the absurdity. To each their own and congratulations on having the means and comfort to make that choice. I guess you could just say it is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Not much the rest of us can do but voice our displeasure and act with/without our wallet. I could probably afford it if I really wanted to but to me and many others, the cost to value is just so skewed we can't come to grips with it.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Obsessed2find pretty much covered my rebuttal to the exotic European sports car analogy ROA keeps trying to spin. I'll also add that when talking about exotic Euro sports cars to run of the mill Toyota/Ford/Chevys, we are talking about real tech advancements. High performance tuned engines. Dynamic suspensions with complex control systems. A lot rooted from race technology. I'll give you the Toyota to Lexus analogy. We aren't saying these latest trailers aren't nice but Obsessed pointed out some "less than best" points already. A static air bladder trailing arm suspension isn't advanced tech. Nice. Above average for sure. Doesn't the Bruder have a dynamic suspension? I may be wrong on that. Isn't Bruder a one piece shell to reduce potential for leaking seams? Tip of the hat for improving insulation and wall construction to be 4 season. Is it worth more. Absolutely. Hardly novel to justify the kind of price increases we are seeing. You didn't figure out how to get modern home level insulation in an RV wall. That would be real novel advancement.
As for the extreme solar power system. Cool. Expensive. Would be more impressive if truly using the top of the line components. Again, not anything new. Just quantity. Anyone could technically put that system on a $25k trailer given the space. Your battery bank and solar system with a charge controller and inverter aren't some new and novel advancement to the RV industry.
As for the cost of mfg materials argument, that is fair only to a point. The off-road trailer market prices were insane before our recent world supply chain issues. When/if materials start to come down, will they reduce the price? Doubtful. Also, the materials are going to be the same or very close to that of the X22. Pretty big price discrepancy between the X22 and the new Xplore and Roamer 1 models. I think the X145 would be the closest comparison to the X22. I think that is a $45k delta off the top of my head. Is the X145 really $45k better than the X22?
There will be people that will pay the price and continue to enable and perpetuate the absurdity. To each their own and congratulations on having the means and comfort to make that choice. I guess you could just say it is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Not much the rest of us can do but voice our displeasure and act with/without our wallet. I could probably afford it if I really wanted to but to me and many others, the cost to value is just so skewed we can't come to grips with it.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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willismatt25
Member
The Bruder EXP-8 is 4 season. But with the $200K+ price tag a vacation house may be a cheaper option.
EXP-8
The Bruder EXP-8 is the ultimate off road, off grid camper trailer. Designed and built for all seasons and all environments.
bruderx.com
Josh41
Adventurer
How about a different approach:
Pickup camper like a Four Wheel Camper Fleet/Hawk for the adults, and the kids in something like a small trailer like the Intech Pursue with slide out kitchen. Like others have said, this is a tall order. Bonus, the trailer can stay at the site all set up while you're out for the day.
Hey GoAwayMore, Hammer, Obsessed2FindARuggedTrailer, guys, you have nothing to apologize for. I really appreciate any of your sharings and options. We are new to this area, and have learned a ton from this forum, as well as others. People’s honest options are the most valuable. So thank you!
We kinda understand your standpoints. We don’t look at specs ( like how many panels, batteries etc) soly for comparison, we value build quality a lot, because 1) we are not handy people, and didn’t own any trailer or RV in the past, we just rented. 2) we would love to minimize potential problems, and spend our time with our small kids during trips as much as possible. 3) we believe quality helps retain the trailer’s resell value.
Also, we are tech background, so anything innovated will interest us.
We lower the priority of winter camping ( but still nice to have) , and continue to look at Patriot X1, Mantis, Exploration 2.0, x145, each has its own pros and cons.
Since we really want:
1. Garage storage ( I know, we said storing outside will be an option, but after careful considerations, we figure storing inside will potentially greatly prolong our trailer’s life. with two small kids, we are not sure how often we are able to use it, but we still love the idea of owning, because we don’t have much rental choice around that satisfy ours needs, let alone it gives us great flexibility and freedom)
2. Space for ideal sleeping arrangements: preferably permanent queen size bed and two converted bunkers
3. Outdoor kitchen, we like to infuse a feel of camping while traveling, especially in a little more remote areas. Sacrificing outdoor kitchen for true four season sounds not appealing.
4. We have a tow vehicle rating for 7000+ towing, but payload is quite limited. Also we are totally fine with living small on the road ( reasonably comfortable)
5. Ability and capacity for off grid & somewhat off road.
6.Nice to have: insulation and heating for water tanks and water lines to extend the camping season. en-suite outdoor shower or indoor shower for warmer showers. Well designed kitchen and more storage overall.
We think we like Kimberley Kamper and Karavan the best. Kamper meets almost all our requirements except for the canvas maintenance and potential issues for increment weather. Kavaran is almost perfect, expect less-than-ideal quick meal.
We might casually look at some more trailers, but we hope to talk with Dave Bates for final decision soon.
Thank you everyone, you helped us tremendously and provided overwhelming helpful information and suggestions. Hope you all enjoy your adventures with your beloved rig!
We kinda understand your standpoints. We don’t look at specs ( like how many panels, batteries etc) soly for comparison, we value build quality a lot, because 1) we are not handy people, and didn’t own any trailer or RV in the past, we just rented. 2) we would love to minimize potential problems, and spend our time with our small kids during trips as much as possible. 3) we believe quality helps retain the trailer’s resell value.
Also, we are tech background, so anything innovated will interest us.
We lower the priority of winter camping ( but still nice to have) , and continue to look at Patriot X1, Mantis, Exploration 2.0, x145, each has its own pros and cons.
Since we really want:
1. Garage storage ( I know, we said storing outside will be an option, but after careful considerations, we figure storing inside will potentially greatly prolong our trailer’s life. with two small kids, we are not sure how often we are able to use it, but we still love the idea of owning, because we don’t have much rental choice around that satisfy ours needs, let alone it gives us great flexibility and freedom)
2. Space for ideal sleeping arrangements: preferably permanent queen size bed and two converted bunkers
3. Outdoor kitchen, we like to infuse a feel of camping while traveling, especially in a little more remote areas. Sacrificing outdoor kitchen for true four season sounds not appealing.
4. We have a tow vehicle rating for 7000+ towing, but payload is quite limited. Also we are totally fine with living small on the road ( reasonably comfortable)
5. Ability and capacity for off grid & somewhat off road.
6.Nice to have: insulation and heating for water tanks and water lines to extend the camping season. en-suite outdoor shower or indoor shower for warmer showers. Well designed kitchen and more storage overall.
We think we like Kimberley Kamper and Karavan the best. Kamper meets almost all our requirements except for the canvas maintenance and potential issues for increment weather. Kavaran is almost perfect, expect less-than-ideal quick meal.
We might casually look at some more trailers, but we hope to talk with Dave Bates for final decision soon.
Thank you everyone, you helped us tremendously and provided overwhelming helpful information and suggestions. Hope you all enjoy your adventures with your beloved rig!
Hi thank you for your suggestion. We would love to stay with our small kids in one connected space though.
eatSleepWoof
Do it for the 'gram
You've been drinking too much of your own kool-aid. Nothing in the renderings on your website suggests this is anywhere close to an "elite, world class trailer."
The marketing surely has a few nice-sounding tidbits, but I find it hard to take you folks seriously when you list "Off-Road Rock Lighting" as a standard feature, but an MPPT solar controller and Thermal windows are something that only comes in the "Xtreme Package." Sounds to me like you're targeting the type of buyer that prioritizes wearing tactical underwear for their weekly pilgrimage to Walmart.
Easy to talk a big game before delivering a single unit.
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