Need to replace my sleeping bag

Christophe Noel

Expedition Leader
One aspect to down that seldom gets discussed as it doesn't neatly fit into a specs page is the sleep quality you get from fluffy feathers. As Jonathan pointed out, synthetics aspire to be as light and compact as down, but no synthetic can provide the same cloud-like feel of down. Synthetic fill is sewn into the bag in panels or sheets. Down is stuffed in the bag loose so it can more easily form to your body shape and fill in the little voids around you. Down also does a better job with body vapor transference. You've probably had the experience of waking up sweaty. That's less likely to happen with down as those bags will allow more body vapor to pass through the bag. More, not all. This is why some synthetic bags can weigh fifteen pounds or more after a week of mountaineering. Pretty gross.

You're more likely to have a dry, fluffy, temperature-regulated night's sleep in down.
 

Beowulf

Expedition Leader
I can second the MontBell spiral down recommendation. They are great. The stretch in them allows you to move and spread out without having to use a big bag. I will never be able to sleep in a normal bag again. Plus, they pack to an incredibly small size. The price tag is not small but they are worth it.
 

shogun

Adventurer
Yes, down is much more compressible.

With whatever bag you buy, make sure to store it unstuffed.

Well, aside from my gut-feeling that thinks down can be damaged by extreme compression, I doubt it will compress much more than a Wiggys. The military vacuum packs the Wiggys bags for use in seat-kit survival kits. Can stay that way for years and still loft when opened. Other synthetics wont do that, need to be stored open.

I am no expert on all the various bags, but any test/evaluation/opinion that doesnt at least include a Wiggys is suspect AFAIC. Wiggy is an industry contrarian and very outspoken. That doesnt make him wrong. Read some of his stuff and you still have to walk away saying "I cant necessarily prove him wrong".
 

Jonathan Hanson

Well-known member
Sorry - Wiggy's insulation is a standard, long-staple high-void polyester fiber. No magical difference from any other high-quality long-staple high-void polyester fiber. Wiggy's makes very good synthetic bags, but they have no unique qualities.

Assuming one doesn't carry a vacuum-bagging machine on expeditions, good down will compress better than any other insulation. It's not harmed by compression as long as it's stored uncompressed - just like polyester insulation. But polyester insulation does degrade over a relatively short period of time compared to down. That's why all synthetic insulation manufacturers still use down as the comparison.
 

Fireman78

Expedition Leader
I had a similar dilemma. I wanted a bag that had the extra room, but the warmth of a down mummy.

These are unique bags in that they stretch when you need them too, and then they'll shrink down to preserve warmth when you need it. I don't know if you need the 0 degree, but that's the one I use. It's super warm. I've even found that when it's 35-40 degrees, I unzip the bag most of the way...it's that warm. It's also really light and packs down really small.

I know you said you didn't want a mummy style, but this one will give you the extra room when you want it without the added bulk and weight.

I absolutley agree with this! For my ultra light Alpacka Raft trips, where weight is a major consideration, this bag is SUPURB. Mine I use is a 15 degree bag that packs down to about the size of a loaf of bread, maybe a tad smaller. The super stretchy part makes it NOT confining like other brands of mummys. This is not the super tough bag used for tossing into the back of the truck, ect. It is a highly technical piece of lightweight equipment that is super light, super packable and great for lightweight adventures. By far the most comfortable peice of equipment I own.
http://www.google.com/products/cata...sa=X&ei=mSrFTuurAsr7sQKz4uAd&ved=0CGgQ8wIwAw#
 

bluejeep

just a guy
I use the Cabela's Alaskan Guide Rectangle bag, long version.
It has down on top and another 'magic' fill on the bottom.
Rated to minus 40F, which, if I were ever in need of something so dramatic temperature wise, means my GPS is also most likely due for a tuning/replacement!

At any rate, it's roomy, includes a dry bag stuff sack combo, and makes a great featherbed to sleep on top of when it's warmer. :coffeedrink:
 

gonejeeping15

Adventurer
I am not a backpacker nor do I want to be. I have plenty of room and just want to be warm and confy. Purchased a Coleman Big Game sleeping bag, which is more like a bed role. It's oversized and weighs 6 lbs and is rated for -5 degrees. Less than $100.

I think it"s a great bag.
 

shogun

Adventurer
Sorry - Wiggy's insulation is a standard, long-staple high-void polyester fiber. No magical difference from any other high-quality long-staple high-void polyester fiber. Wiggy's makes very good synthetic bags, but they have no unique qualities.

Assuming one doesn't carry a vacuum-bagging machine on expeditions, good down will compress better than any other insulation. It's not harmed by compression as long as it's stored uncompressed - just like polyester insulation. But polyester insulation does degrade over a relatively short period of time compared to down. That's why all synthetic insulation manufacturers still use down as the comparison.

I was under the impression that his bags ability to store (very much) compressed made them somewhat unique.

And I am not qualified to make distinctions between "long-staple high-void polyester fiber" and Wiggys "continuous filament fiber". Seems like alot of mumbo-jumbo to me, so maybe its all the same.

My point is that he claims to be different (and better), and while he certainly has a stake in the business, I havent seen anyone convincingly refute his claims. The Worst comments I've heard (from fellow end users, not a scientific test) was that his bags are As Good as other high-end bags. From there they range up to high-praise. Personally, I'd like to see them compared rather than ignored in fair tests.


Some cut and paste from his website, my source for technical references;
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The Lamilite is an unbounded, silicone-coated continuous filament fiber. This is inside and cannot be seen. The silicone coating gives the fiber two very desirable properties. The first is “antistatic” which allows the fibers to perpetually repel each other regardless of how tightly the fibers are packed against each other (such as compacting in a stuff sack). The loft always returns after removing our sleeping bag from the stuff sack. As an example, one of our Ultima Thule sleeping bags was compacted under 20 tons of pressure. It was blister packed in two poly bags the size of 14 1/2” x 9 1/2” x 2 3/4”. After four days it was opened and in one hour, without assistance, 90% of its loft returned. A Lamilite insulated sleeping bag is the only synthetic bag ever put through this test that returned to its original loft. Not even a down bag will return to almost original, actually the down bags deteriorate when vacuum packed. It is for this reason that I guarantee my sleeping bags will never lose their loft. The Alaska National Guard, as part of their survival gear, uses the Ultima Thule. The bags are left in the vacuum package until needed.
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Refer to the Steger Expedition to the North Pole in July 1986. They used 15 pound chopped staple fiberfill insulated bags that accumulated 35 pounds of ice. The fiberfill used in those bags was Quallofil, a fiber produced by DuPont Co. Even though the fiber is silicone treated, the fact that it was so densely packed in by the quilting prevented any flow of moisture while in a vapor state.
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Lamilite is synthetic, polyester fiber. When polyester fiber was developed it was produced in various thicknesses referred to as denier. Fiber denier varies from a thin ¼ denier and thicker, such as 15 to 20 denier used for making carpet. The ideal denier developed for insulation became a 5.5 denier. Lamilite is made from a 5.5 denier continuous filament fiber which has been coated with a silicone finish vs. chopped staple fiber. The difference being how the fiber is utilized in the manufacturing process employed to make sleeping bags or any insulated product for that matter. Chopped staple fiber must be sectioned off with quilt stitching or it will break apart when laundered. The problem worsens if the fiber has a silicone finish; it will move more quickly during the laundering process since it has a slickened surface developing un-insulated areas (cold spots) during the laundering process.
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None of the above is possible when continuous filament is used. Lamilite continuous filament fiber is first adhered to the shell or lining material to stabilize it for manufacturing. It is then cut in large sections for each layer of the sleeping bag. The next step is to perimeter sew each section to further stabilize the fiber. There are no quilt stitches involved in this manufacturing procedure; quilting will cause the fiber to fatigue and ultimately collapse there by reducing it insulating ability. The next step in the manufacturing procedure is to attach each component at the perimeter of so as not to diminish any area of the bag compromising the insulation.
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Last but by no means least Wiggy brand sleeping bags are the only bags purchased by the U.S. military; all branches; that are vacuum packed under approximately 23 tons of pressure and blister packaged for survival kits. The Air Force uses them in their fighters and transports. The Navy uses them on all 4 and 12 man survival rafts. The Army has them on aircraft and helicopters and the Marines on transports. Wiggy’s brand sleeping bags or rather Lamilite insulated sleeping bags are the only sleeping bags made in the world that can fully recover their loft; i.e. insulation property once broken out of the blister packaging.
 

Jonathan Hanson

Well-known member
Wiggy's makes very good sleeping bags.

But they're not magic. Lamilite is a trade name like so many other trade names for polyester insulation - it's all a variation of the same basic material, and Wiggy's uses a top-quality variation. Wiggy's guarantee that his bags will never lose their loft is sheer braggadocio - he hasn't been making bags long enough (1986) to know that, and Lamilite came even later. I have two Marmot down bags older than that, still in fine shape.

Wiggy's is like Jack Stephenson of Stephenson's and Patrick Smith of Kifaru. They all make excellent gear, but insist on insisting that theirs is the only good stuff. They have disciples more than they do customers. (I own a Kifaru pack and a Stephenson tent.) It's amusing, but shouldn't be taken as more than really passionate marketing.
 

CYi5

Explorer
I have a Wiggy's Superlight with the additional overbag option, and for the life of me can't figure out why i'm constantly cold every night...Even on nights in the 30's. I must just not be wearing the proper attire to bed or something. The quality is top notch and comes with a lot of extra nice throw ins. I'll probably try the down option next as I mostly do car camping.
 
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ssssnake529

Explorer
I was under the impression that his bags ability to store (very much) compressed made them somewhat unique.

And I am not qualified to make distinctions between "long-staple high-void polyester fiber" and Wiggys "continuous filament fiber". Seems like alot of mumbo-jumbo to me, so maybe its all the same.

Generally, there are 2 types of polyester filling; short staple fibers that try to mimic down clusters (quallofill, etc.) and long staple fibers that are long strands. (polarguard and Wiggy's version of polarguard.)

My experience has been that long staple fibers tend to keep their loft longer than short staple fibers. My guess is that repeated compression causes the short fibers to clump and squish together more than the long fibers do.
 

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