needle bearing, unit bearing, hub assembly issues....

[volcomsurfer]

Backstory:
So for a while now it's been pretty hard to turn my hub from free to locked. I'm no mechanic but I'm learning as I go; unfortunately I learn when things break. I've always been on my own so it's hard to see/check/find issues without having knowledge about stuff. The hub has been hard to turn for a while so I'm assuming I guess I haven't had 4wd for a long time now, coincidently I must have just gotten unstuck when I've had to throw it in 4wd. I got stuck in a parking spot the other day because it iced over while I was at work and couldn't make it over a little hill. I got out, locked the hubs and still only one tire spinning in the rear. My friend was outside the van and said my driveshaft was spinning but not the wheels. So I came home and opened up the hub to find out it's all rusted and dry. Further more the seal going to the axle was out.

Things I've checked:
-I've lifted the DS tire off the ground, locked it and spun the driveshaft, the wheel spins. Did the same for the PS and it doesn't spin. Because the knuckle assembly moves so much I don't think it's sitting centered so the hub wasn't actually engaging
-All the teeth on the gears of the hub assembly are in tack and nothing is chipped
-The springs are rusted and don't have much resistance
-The diff is fluid level is fine
-The o-ring on the hub cap looks intact so I'm assuming the grease and moisture was coming from the back
-The driver side hub assembly is clean and looks fine

Questions:
-I know it's probably hard to tell me without seeing it, but should I be able to just clean all the surface rust off the hub assembly and get new springs if need be and keep the hub? or will I need to get a whole new one?
-What's the best method of checking everything to see what parts are shot and what I need to order?
-What's my next step?

I've done some searching but I'm not really finding a definitive answer for what I should do. I just spent a bunch of money on an oil cooler issue and transfer case/u-joint issues and I'm trying to do this cheap but right (more right than cheap). If there's any other info you guys need to help me diagnose what I'll have to do lemme know. I appreciate your time in reading this and giving me advice.

Video of the knuckle play..
https://youtu.be/82ERStsYjcI

Passenger side assembly:

A little piece that was stuck inbetween some teeth. I assumed this was one of the issues with it not engaging. It took a bit of effort to pop it out.

The seal:

Driverside, so THAT's what it's supposed to look like...:

 

[IdaSHO]

Checked your build thread link.

This axle was installed during the conversion just in the last year or so?

How many miles since?


If the wheel spins free, true, and without play (when off the ground) the unit bearings should be okay.


With that much play the needle bearings are history.
Chances are high that the axle stub shaft is toast as well.

 

[volcomsurfer]

yes, installed during the conversion. I've had trouble turning the hub since last year so I'm assuming it hasn't worked since I left Florida. I knew it was something I should have checked but I've always had bigger issues that I've been chasing. It's just been one headache after another. I'm sure most of it is my fault from a lack of knowledge about preventative maintenance. I keep up on fluids, greasing bushings and other basic maintenance, but the bigger things I'm learning as I go. One expensive learning process though. Looking at a little over 22k miles from u-joint. Do you know of a good link on how to check the need bearing and axle stub shaft. I'm gonna do some searching before the steelers game starts.

Here's my maintenance list if that helps with time frames... This van has been a headache but I think this has been the main issue for a long time. I've just been misdiagnosing it for the longest time. Honestly, just didn't know it was an issue until I talked to my friend and it all clicked/made sense.

 

[IdaSHO]

Have you contacted U-joint?

Before doing anything, Id certainly give them a ring to see what they have to say.

With such a conversion, Id assume at the very least the axles they provide are reconditioned to like new, if not brand new.

Such a failure in such short time/mileage is not common. Id reach out to them. If they didnt cover it completely, they may at least meet you in the middle somewhere for repair cost.

With just 22k, I cannot imagine any maintenance that would be needed with regards to the conversion and/axle components.

 

[brianjwilson]

Ugh I need to pull apart my driver's side hub on my ujoint front axle as well. Mine is the "stage 2" RSC axle with dynaloc hubs. Twice now I've locked it up and the driver's side didn't engage, made grinding noise. Had to stop and unlock, drive, lock again. The X and O don't line up with the switch position like they do on the other side. And it sounds like a bad bearing although I never have felt any heat coming from the hub/bearing. No noticeable movement at the wheel but I need to dig into it already I guess.

 

[ujoint]

Those Warn hubs are terrible and causing the problem. I've seen a few failures over the last 6 months, random. The snap ring comes out of the back and allows the hub to "come apart" inside the unit bearing. That puts the stub shaft in a bind which wipes out the spindle bearing quickly. Then the shaft moves around and this is usually when the problem is noticed. This is exactly what has happened to you.

Shoot me an email or call, you need new hubs, maybe a new stub shaft (if it has been damaged) and possibly a unit bearing. We do have the delron inserts to replace the crap spindle bearings.

 

[ujoint]

Ugh I need to pull apart my driver's side hub on my ujoint front axle as well. Mine is the "stage 2" RSC axle with dynaloc hubs. Twice now I've locked it up and the driver's side didn't engage, made grinding noise. Had to stop and unlock, drive, lock again. The X and O don't line up with the switch position like they do on the other side. And it sounds like a bad bearing although I never have felt any heat coming from the hub/bearing. No noticeable movement at the wheel but I need to dig into it already I guess.

Your front axle parts are different than this setup. No parts are shared but that D side hub should be looked at. The Dynaloc's can be stubborn, we've only done a few sets.

 

[Pinnacle Campers]

Those Warn hubs are terrible and causing the problem. I've seen a few failures over the last 6 months, random. The snap ring comes out of the back and allows the hub to "come apart" inside the unit bearing. That puts the stub shaft in a bind which wipes out the spindle bearing quickly. Then the shaft moves around and this is usually when the problem is noticed. This is exactly what has happened to you.

Shoot me an email or call, you need new hubs, maybe a new stub shaft (if it has been damaged) and possibly a unit bearing. We do have the delron inserts to replace the crap spindle bearings.

Tell us more about these Delrin inserts. Do you make them? Or do they have a part#?

I think I fell victim to a similar incident....In fact I'm not super impressed with the D60 axle, that outer axle seal that is out in Volcomsurfer's photo is the only thing supporting the axle between the center diff and the spindle bearing. This will always be a problem, I have looked at numerous truck axles recently to find those seals out and down.
There really should be a bearing supporting the axle just inside the seal, anyone else see this? Chris?

The weight of the CV is just hogging out the seal. Faster you go worse it gets....60mph in the snow on the highway or a dirt road in 4x4 probably isn't the best scenario. Also wearing the splined connection at the diff. Spindle, needle bearing, etc on the other end.

 

[ujoint]

I have them made. And yea, that seal doesn't support anything but no front D60s have anything different. There's either a spindle bearing at the back of the spindle on a traditional bearing axle or the bearing at the back of the unit bearing.

I've been using Mile Marker hubs on our axles that don't have the RSC upgrade. I like them better.

 

[ujoint]

 

[Pinnacle Campers]

I like those Chris, may have to get a set.
How about whipping up some MG magic and add a outer axle housing bearing kit to the list of P/N's too?

 

[brianjwilson]

Your front axle parts are different than this setup. No parts are shared but that D side hub should be looked at. The Dynaloc's can be stubborn, we've only done a few sets.

Yeah but with the lack of grease that was in my hub today, I'd have suffered a similar fate I think. Several steps in the dynaloc instructions specificy "generous amounts of high quality grease" and there was barely any. Many spots that specified grease were completely dry. Well.... I say dry, but actually there was water in there as well (no wonder why they were especially stubborn when it was below freezing). Completely dry o-ring that should have had grease too. No loc-tite on the bolts.

I don't mean to pick the work apart, but whoever is assembling them could prevent premature failure of some expensive upgraded parts. The hub does lock and unlock more freely now, hopefully it will operate more reliably. I need to disassemble the passenger side now and clean and grease it. Hopefully that side is better greased and the driver's side was a fluke.

For what it's worth, I didn't SEE why it would be critical to have the hub lock switch line up a certain way other than for visual inspection.

 

[ujoint]

Yeah but with the lack of grease that was in my hub today, I'd have suffered a similar fate I think. Several steps in the dynaloc instructions specificy "generous amounts of high quality grease" and there was barely any. Many spots that specified grease were completely dry. Well.... I say dry, but actually there was water in there as well (no wonder why they were especially stubborn when it was below freezing). Completely dry o-ring that should have had grease too. No loc-tite on the bolts.

I don't mean to pick the work apart, but whoever is assembling them could prevent premature failure of some expensive upgraded parts. The hub does lock and unlock more freely now, hopefully it will operate more reliably. I need to disassemble the passenger side now and clean and grease it. Hopefully that side is better greased and the driver's side was a fluke.

For what it's worth, I didn't SEE why it would be critical to have the hub lock switch line up a certain way other than for visual inspection.

Will ck with Steven to make sure he's greasing (obviously not) on the Dynalocks. This is only the 3rd set we've done so I can see why he assembled like the Warns with no grease. Glad you pulled it apart to inspect.