New Defender News

[DieselRanger]

I don't think it warrants a comparison to a Rubicon- it can't compete; especially off-road. I think it's competitive with a Jeep Grand Cherokee though.

Some people will never be convinced regardless of the depth and rigor of off-road tests accomplished. To me it's clear JGC can't do half of what this can off the lot, and it's clear that the Defender is a serious competitor to the Wrangler off-road for 99.9% of buyers.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

I don't think it warrants a comparison to a Rubicon- it can't compete; especially off-road. I think it's competitive with a Jeep Grand Cherokee though.

I’d wager it will go anywhere a stock Rubicon will. Around here, even the ones on 37’s are pavement queens, or occasionally drive down a fire road. I suppose the idea of “ability” is more important to many than the actual need for it.

An LR3 with appropriate tires will go 95% or more of the places one can without risking severe body damage or water over the hood. I have zero qualms about scratching/denting mine, or using it hard, but I’m not willing to put the door into a rock and force my way through, or hydrolock the engine.



There’s a fine line between a vehicle that you need to preserve well enough to drive home in, and a toy that can ride back on a trailer.

 

[nickw]

I don't think it warrants a comparison to a Rubicon- it can't compete; especially off-road. I think it's competitive with a Jeep Grand Cherokee though.

In the video Scott says he thinks it can complete the Rubicon although he'd leave that to the...Rubicon

 

[JeepColorado]

Here's my take from all of these reviews-

- The 49K price tag was always a marketing gimmick- one of the most positive pieces of press it gets is how fun it is to drive, but the reviews of the base model engine are pretty consistent- the engine is a dog given how heavy the Defender is. So, the only way to get this thrill-enducing great driving experience which is probably it's strongest point- is to wind up in the almost $70K range
- The Stability Control system is non-defeatable and can be stifling in off-road situations
- To put it nicely, very few people care for the front-end- major miss on LR's part- especially when you consider that it isn't remarkable compared to the competition- most of the appeal of this is style- to have a LR Defender; it's not substance. If substance is your preference, there are clearly better choices.
- After spending thousands more for the electronics and incurring all of the complexity it creates and the limitations it brings for the aftermarket you still end up with a vehicle whose 4x4 system is no better than technology that has been in place for decades. Think about it- for all of the whiz-bang tinkering LR has been doing for decades they've yet to come up with a single set up that beats a Wrangler Rubicons beams and lockers- don't get me wrong- I appreciate their attempt, just not dazzled with the results.
- Also, there were reports of electrical glitches and leaks (shocking!) and while yes, these were prototypes- they were also THE prototypes LR chose to bring on a trip in which they chose where to go and when- if you can't get product right in your big launch- when you chose the time, place, manner and circumstances under which the world would be watching and you still screwed it up- I don't have much confidence in your execution. Think about it- it you went to a parachute product launch and the manufacturer said- Hey, we've got a significantly more complicated parachute; that to even scratch the surface of getting the best benefits of you'll need to pay substantially more for than the competition, and oh by the way, when we launched it some of them had the same screw ups that we haven't been able to figure out for years- would you be like, wow, I really can't wait to buy that parachute!

From these reviews it seems to me to be an overpriced Grand Cherokee or for someone who wants the lux swagger of a G-Wagon but doesn't have the $.

 

[JeepColorado]

Some people will never be convinced regardless of the depth and rigor of off-road tests accomplished. To me it's clear JGC can't do half of what this can off the lot, and it's clear that the Defender is a serious competitor to the Wrangler off-road for 99.9% of buyers.

I'll take that as a statement towards people in general and not towards me personally as I'm sure that's how you mean it. Just like the way that I mean when I say that I think some people want something to be true so bad that they can't see any piece of objective evidence that runs counter to their view point as evidence that maybe their view is wrong. If a person believes that the LR Defender is the best thing to happen to the world since we discovered that fermentation leads to alcohol then they will not likely be able to read an article or see a video and register any of the obvious deficiencies, no matter how obvious. Speaking for myself personally, I've always wanted LR to produce something worth worthwhile- I've went wheeling with Rover groups, I went to dealers to test drive, I've read every piece of info that I could find on the Defender- at the end of the day, after objective analysis, I've come to the conclusion that the Defender just isn't all that special. It's a Cool SUV sure and for almost $100K total including upgrades and accessories you can get one that is as capable as a Grand Cherokee for half the price and looks the part of it's legend, but that's it, nothing more.

 

[Blaise]

after objective analysis

Don't kid yourself. This truck was literally driven through Namibia by the owner of the website and given a positive review but you still hate it. It's fine, hate all you want but don't pretend you're being objective. Nothing you post is objective. I've stated 1000x times now in these threads that the JL is more capable, the LR is more comfortable but capable enough for any real, actual, trail. That's objective.

"I think it's ugly" is subjective.

Here's my take from all of these reviews-

- The 49K price tag was always a marketing gimmick- one of the most positive pieces of press it gets is how fun it is to drive, but the reviews of the base model engine are pretty consistent- the engine is a dog given how heavy the Defender is. So, the only way to get this thrill-enducing great driving experience which is probably it's strongest point- is to wind up in the almost $70K range
- The Stability Control system is non-defeatable and can be stifling in off-road situations
- To put it nicely, very few people care for the front-end- major miss on LR's part- especially when you consider that it isn't remarkable compared to the competition- most of the appeal of this is style- to have a LR Defender; it's not substance. If substance is your preference, there are clearly better choices.
- After spending thousands more for the electronics and incurring all of the complexity it creates and the limitations it brings for the aftermarket you still end up with a vehicle whose 4x4 system is no better than technology that has been in place for decades. Think about it- for all of the whiz-bang tinkering LR has been doing for decades they've yet to come up with a single set up that beats a Wrangler Rubicons beams and lockers- don't get me wrong- I appreciate their attempt, just not dazzled with the results.
- Also, there were reports of electrical glitches and leaks (shocking!) and while yes, these were prototypes- they were also THE prototypes LR chose to bring on a trip in which they chose where to go and when- if you can't get product right in your big launch- when you chose the time, place, manner and circumstances under which the world would be watching and you still screwed it up- I don't have much confidence in your execution. Think about it- it you went to a parachute product launch and the manufacturer said- Hey, we've got a significantly more complicated parachute; that to even scratch the surface of getting the best benefits of you'll need to pay substantially more for than the competition, and oh by the way, when we launched it some of them had the same screw ups that we haven't been able to figure out for years- would you be like, wow, I really can't wait to buy that parachute!

From these reviews it seems to me to be an overpriced Grand Cherokee or for someone who wants the lux swagger of a G-Wagon but doesn't have the $.

Not that you'll ever write anything positive (or balanced), but I'll give it one last shot.

-The base model P300 Defender, in the heaviest 110 trim, does 0-60 in 7.7 seconds. Are you really young, or do you not remember when trucks were slow?
-The stability control has *never* been an issue for me. EVER. And I'm in a much older rover.
-Fine, you think its ugly. See above, you don't like it, we get it. You've posted that 1000 times now.
-Really. REALLY. Decades ago we had awful solid-axle suspended vehicles with AWFUL ride quality and horrific street manners and worse traction control. Even the current JL is not good to drive on the road. And guess what, we all gotta drive on the road. So yes, they have significantly evolved and it *is* better. Remember, ultimate capability is not everyone's measure.
-Jeep also flubbed the welds on the frames of the first JL wranglers. Gimme a break. I said the same thing to everyone who kept going on about 'fiat quality.'

TLDR: Go buy a freakin Rubicon already, why are you still here and posting... you clearly hate this thing.

 

[T-Willy]

Lots of good reviews, but, reliability, reliability, reliability: Defender is a risky remote touring investment.

For remote touring, reliability is critical. Unreliability is fatal.

Meanwhile, Land Rover remains the least reliable car brand.

Until and unless reliability is proven, it's a risky purchase.

 

[JeepColorado]

Don't kid yourself. This truck was literally driven through Namibia by the owner of the website and given a positive review but you still hate it. It's fine, hate all you want but don't pretend you're being objective. Nothing you post is objective. I've stated 1000x times now in these threads that the JL is more capable, the LR is more comfortable but capable enough for any real, actual, trail. That's objective.

"I think it's ugly" is subjective.



Not that you'll ever write anything positive (or balanced), but I'll give it one last shot.

-The base model P300 Defender, in the heaviest 110 trim, does 0-60 in 7.7 seconds. Are you really young, or do you not remember when trucks were slow?
-The stability control has *never* been an issue for me. EVER. And I'm in a much older rover.
-Fine, you think its ugly. See above, you don't like it, we get it. You've posted that 1000 times now.
-Really. REALLY. Decades ago we had awful solid-axle suspended vehicles with AWFUL ride quality and horrific street manners and worse traction control. Even the current JL is not good to drive on the road. And guess what, we all gotta drive on the road. So yes, they have significantly evolved and it *is* better. Remember, ultimate capability is not everyone's measure.
-Jeep also flubbed the welds on the frames of the first JL wranglers. Gimme a break. I said the same thing to everyone who kept going on about 'fiat quality.'

TLDR: Go buy a freakin Rubicon already, why are you still here and posting... you clearly hate this thing.

Why am I still here and posting? ....perhaps it's because I'm an avid off-road enthusiast with the better part of 3 decades of experience? ;Maybe it's because I'm a subscriber to Overland Journal and have a deep interest in the topics being discussed?; Or it could be because I'm active on numerous off-road forums and attend many club events because I want to be a part of the lifestyle? It's certainly not because I want to come somewhere and just hear from people who agree with everything I say and dismiss any opinion that doesn't reinforce my own...why do you post here?

 

[mpinco]

Well as an owner of only LR 4wd's the current new Defender power train alternatives are a fail. I'm out till they fix that.

 

[REDROVER]

Cute crossover
defender is about to join the latest failure vehicles. Acura NSX and Toyota Supra, they can’t give those away.

Toyota thought Supra name will sale the junk BMW Z4 rebadged as Supra, and it didn’t.
And Land Rover thinks rebadged crossover will sale because of defender name.

Watch it fail.

At least people buy Range Rover because it looks good.

 

[JeepColorado]

Apologies for the "TLDR"- some things don't fit on a bumper sticker- but here's a few quick quotes for those of us short on time-

Car and Driver- https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a31911812/2020-land-rover-defender-drive/
- "Laggy In-line six, touchy brakes, non-defeatable stability control occassionally stifles off-roading"
- " Most of the warning lights we experienced were extinguished by a simple restart. Washer fluid poured from the reservoir on a particularly steep decline, but Land Rover promises a better-sealing cap will fix the problem."

Given their history LR gets very little if any leeway here- all manufacturers have their issues for sure- but comparing typical production glitches to the decades long relentless engineering flaws and unreliability of LR is not being fair nor objective. LR has earned every ounce of skepticism from anyone willing to be objective. Do you want to spend $70K on a vehicle where the review says- hey, at least most of the warning lights go away with a restart?

- "They'll buy it because it's cooler-looking than the similarly priced Land Rover Discovery as well as whatever it's parked next to at soccer practice, and because it encourages the fantasy of a faraway trek."

That seems like a pretty good summary of it to me- it's about the fantasy- it looks cool to those who don't know better- it's style over substance. It definitely looks the part so long as you spend almost $80K on it and don't spend too long looking at it from the front.

 

[nickw]

Here's my take from all of these reviews-

- The 49K price tag was always a marketing gimmick- one of the most positive pieces of press it gets is how fun it is to drive, but the reviews of the base model engine are pretty consistent- the engine is a dog given how heavy the Defender is. So, the only way to get this thrill-enducing great driving experience which is probably it's strongest point- is to wind up in the almost $70K range
- The Stability Control system is non-defeatable and can be stifling in off-road situations
- To put it nicely, very few people care for the front-end- major miss on LR's part- especially when you consider that it isn't remarkable compared to the competition- most of the appeal of this is style- to have a LR Defender; it's not substance. If substance is your preference, there are clearly better choices.
- After spending thousands more for the electronics and incurring all of the complexity it creates and the limitations it brings for the aftermarket you still end up with a vehicle whose 4x4 system is no better than technology that has been in place for decades. Think about it- for all of the whiz-bang tinkering LR has been doing for decades they've yet to come up with a single set up that beats a Wrangler Rubicons beams and lockers- don't get me wrong- I appreciate their attempt, just not dazzled with the results.
- Also, there were reports of electrical glitches and leaks (shocking!) and while yes, these were prototypes- they were also THE prototypes LR chose to bring on a trip in which they chose where to go and when- if you can't get product right in your big launch- when you chose the time, place, manner and circumstances under which the world would be watching and you still screwed it up- I don't have much confidence in your execution. Think about it- it you went to a parachute product launch and the manufacturer said- Hey, we've got a significantly more complicated parachute; that to even scratch the surface of getting the best benefits of you'll need to pay substantially more for than the competition, and oh by the way, when we launched it some of them had the same screw ups that we haven't been able to figure out for years- would you be like, wow, I really can't wait to buy that parachute!

From these reviews it seems to me to be an overpriced Grand Cherokee or for someone who wants the lux swagger of a G-Wagon but doesn't have the $.

A dog? Certainly not for what it is. It's twice as fast as any older defender (literally), the same 0-60 time as a Tacoma and on par with the majority or rigs out there today...can you imagine what you'd have to say if they did a retro inspired re-boot with a diesel engine (like everybody wanted), it would be even slower and you'd be even more bent. The engine is fine, loads more low end power than a gasser Jeep, sim 0-60 and more capable to haul / tow.

Did you watch the release video and Scotts commentary on the nanny aids offroad? He noted it was slightly intrusive but overall not bad whatsoever - from a pro, who knows ****** he's doing.

I'd argue for what the majority of folks do, it's 4x4 systems is about perfect. High clearance IFS/IRS, better on the road and every bit as good as any Jeep (Rubicon included) on moderate offroad stuff. If you've never driven a rig with air-sus, it's super cool and very useful.

This thing also has much more payload than a Jeep, which goes a long way with the expo crowd unless your idea of expedition is different than most on here? Maybe we are talking past each other....what is your idea expedition use with a 4x4?

It's 1/2 the price of a Gwagen, literally, 50%. I don't think anybody cross shops a Defender with a up-scale, 500 HP, low volume, (unfortunate) status symbol....

 

[nickw]

Cute crossover
defender is about to join the latest failure vehicles. Acura NSX and Toyota Supra, they can’t give those away.

Toyota thought Supra name will sale the junk BMW Z4 rebadged as Supra, and it didn’t.
And Land Rover thinks rebadged crossover will sale because of defender name.

Watch it fail.

At least people buy Range Rover because it looks good.

Don't forget the Hummers H2 / H3....thought you would have called that one out too, all things considered

 

[nickw]

It's funny to me, people ********** and moan about LR not staying true to roots.....ok, fine, but they produced something that is MORE capable than the older ones, gets better gas mileage, is more comfortable, quieter, easier to drive, faster, the list goes on and on. It's simply a better truck by any measure, when is that not a great thing?

I 100% agree it doesn't have the character or the old school charm, although I do quite like it, but be honest in why you don't like it vs making a bunch of silly &*#( up as to why it's not good or sub-par.

 

[naks]

IOL's review: https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/late...efender-through-its-paces-in-namibia-45527502


"Some of the Namibian dirt roads are better than locally previously tarred roads, so using a heavy right foot when you’re behind the wheel in a vehicle loaded with electronic safety features becomes almost obligatory. On the long stretches of hard, smooth dirt, the Defender couldn’t get enough, and on long sweeping bends, a gentle drift had us asking for more.

The reality of driving like that though is that things get a bit hectic at the petrol pump, and after a day’s hard driving in low range in soft sand, mud, quicksand and hard and fast playing that saw the cars covered in plumes of water, consumption was almost touching on 30L/100km.

The previous day in the 240 diesel, consumption showed 23L/100km, slightly better considering again there was a lot of sand driving in low range.

When we pulled back to Opuwo Country Lodge, we had done almost 800km, the third rotation to have done so and another one 24 hours behind us.

Land Rover had built a full workshop with the latest equipment, including diagnostic equipment and a hoist to properly clean and service each vehicle. On their return to the UK, this would become the lodge’s laundry room.

What made this trip different is that because the Defenders were still pre-production units, technicians and engineers were constantly monitoring real-time live data and feeding it back to HQ in England where it would be analysed and changes made to the soft and hardware where necessary. There was nothing hidden from us or sanitised. That’s difficult when you’re up to your knees in mud and clay.

As an example: the tyre pressure monitor keeps blipping under a certain pressure, way more than you would normally drive on in sandy conditions, and this will be updated when production starts.

The engineers also picked up a small issue with gear changing when in sand mode, nothing noticeable when you drive, but a minor software tweak will improve it.

They also found that constant hard water driving would shorten the lifespan of the wheel arch protection material, so the guys in the workshop designed and built something on site which will end up on the finished product."