DieselRanger
Well-known member
And did you set the configurable Terrain response to minimum wheelspin?
New Defender News
- Thread starter blackangie
- Start date
naks
Well-known member
no, unfortunately we didn't get to play with the configurable TR
ChasingOurTrunks
Well-known member
Great videos, Naks. Thanks for sharing.
I’m hoping folks who know the system can set me straight here, but it seems to me that driving a Land Rover off-road requires a bit of a different technique than a traditional 4x4 — it strikes me that in a Defender 2, forward motion is better served with keeping the power constant even with a bit of wheel spin so that the TR System can compensate automatically, whereas a traditional non-TC’d 4x4, you tend to modulate the throttle a lot more, accelerate when you have traction to build momentum and ease off when the traction fails. Am I way off base on this understanding?
I’m trying to figure out how in some videos, this Defender looks like it can conquer any terrain, where in others it seems to appear to struggle a bit. It could be tires, lockers, etc. But I’ve noticed that where the Defender is seen to struggle, the power is being modulated a lot, and I dare say the drivers are almost being “timid”, and where the Defender seems to just “walk” up tricky sections, it’s really appears to be committing to it and driving through that wins the day.
Thoughts from owners (of the Def2 or other LRs) that can tell me how totally wrong I am? (I’ve never driven a Land Rover so I’m speaking from total ignorance).
I’m hoping folks who know the system can set me straight here, but it seems to me that driving a Land Rover off-road requires a bit of a different technique than a traditional 4x4 — it strikes me that in a Defender 2, forward motion is better served with keeping the power constant even with a bit of wheel spin so that the TR System can compensate automatically, whereas a traditional non-TC’d 4x4, you tend to modulate the throttle a lot more, accelerate when you have traction to build momentum and ease off when the traction fails. Am I way off base on this understanding?
I’m trying to figure out how in some videos, this Defender looks like it can conquer any terrain, where in others it seems to appear to struggle a bit. It could be tires, lockers, etc. But I’ve noticed that where the Defender is seen to struggle, the power is being modulated a lot, and I dare say the drivers are almost being “timid”, and where the Defender seems to just “walk” up tricky sections, it’s really appears to be committing to it and driving through that wins the day.
Thoughts from owners (of the Def2 or other LRs) that can tell me how totally wrong I am? (I’ve never driven a Land Rover so I’m speaking from total ignorance).
Yep steady throttle input is the key.
All TC systems REQUIRE wheel spin. They are basically reverse ABS, algorithms that leverage existing wheel sensors to selectively apply brakes to a single wheel. Sway control is a 'feature' layered on top of the same technology. I've said this before, today's TC emerged in the 93 RRC and was further developed into what was the DII that eliminated the center diff. That was a step too far and the center diff returned late in the DII life cycle.
In a live demonstration of the DII a DI struggled on a broken down granite hill, the DII made it further up but still failed the hill climb while a locked D90 walked right up. The basic issue is that once you are on marbles under all 4 wheels TC 'hunts' and you also loose forward momentum as brakes are applied. TC needs to dig itself in to regain traction/eliminate the loss of traction under at least one wheel even as momentum is being reduced by braking. This is a technology limitation applicable to ALL traction control systems.
In a live demonstration of the DII a DI struggled on a broken down granite hill, the DII made it further up but still failed the hill climb while a locked D90 walked right up. The basic issue is that once you are on marbles under all 4 wheels TC 'hunts' and you also loose forward momentum as brakes are applied. TC needs to dig itself in to regain traction/eliminate the loss of traction under at least one wheel even as momentum is being reduced by braking. This is a technology limitation applicable to ALL traction control systems.
Blaise
Well-known member
This is hard to believe. Not calling you a liar just based on my experience the rear locker kicks on very quickly in these situations.
Blaise
Well-known member
My experience has been that the TC system is super robust and easy to use. I just slowly apply throttle, if the rear slips the locker kicks on, if the front slips the TC kicks in and it walks right over with no fuss. It's a bit frustrating that so far all the videos we've seen have been folks who are admittedly very new to driving offf-road. Don't even get me started with TFL (bad driving AND lift rods)....
Corgi_express
Well-known member
There is no mode called "off road mode" on the new Defender. There is rock crawl, mud/ruts, sand, and so on. In my experience in Rock Crawl with a wheel three feet in the air, there was minimal spin. Are you sure it wasn't in mud/ruts, which everyone says they prefer, but which allows a decent amount of spin?
DieselRanger
Well-known member
Sand mode actually has the most, at least on my D5.
DieselRanger
Well-known member
Can't wait to see his first expedition with one. Would love to see a repeat of the Cape Town to Kathmandu trip, or (security willing), Cape Town up the West Coast to Morocco.
naks
Well-known member
I know, this is why I said I was surprised by the amount of wheelspin.
The e-diff is almost instantaneous on my RRS, the rear wheels barely spin and it kicks in.
Maybe it doesn't have one and the display is just configured to show it regardless? IIRC, wasn't was the case on D3/D4/RRS where the only way to tell was to crawl under the car and look at the diff?
It might have been in Mud/Ruts, but IME even in the wrong mode, the car sort of figures out what's going and provides traction where it's available.
ChasingOurTrunks
Well-known member
Thanks for the info in response to my previous question folks. That helps confirm what I’ve been seeing.
Another interesting video, Naks. I think the hosts’ conclusion is pretty good — if off road performance from the dealership lot is the goal, the margins between the Defender, the G, and the Jeep seem pretty narrow — much more narrow than I think a lot of people expected when the new Defender was announced with IS/Unibody design. Regardless, all three rigs got where they needed to go — a job done is a job done. A job done marginally more gracefully...is still a job done!
Another interesting video, Naks. I think the hosts’ conclusion is pretty good — if off road performance from the dealership lot is the goal, the margins between the Defender, the G, and the Jeep seem pretty narrow — much more narrow than I think a lot of people expected when the new Defender was announced with IS/Unibody design. Regardless, all three rigs got where they needed to go — a job done is a job done. A job done marginally more gracefully...is still a job done!