New Defender News

[Red90]

I work in I.T.

I really did not think I would need to also deal with wifi password and software updates in my car.

Wait until you get the BSOD!!! My real concern is what happens in 10, 15 or 20 years with these vehicles? There will be no software support and the hardware will all be obsolete.

 

[jdlobb]

Wait until you get the BSOD!!! My real concern is what happens in 10, 15 or 20 years with these vehicles? There will be no software support and the hardware will all be obsolete.

if the software still needs ongoing support in 10, 15, or 20 years they have bigger problems.

People act like this is a new issue. Cars have had onboard computers for well over 20 years now, and it hasn't been a significant issue yet for any of them afaik. There are plenty of Lexus folks still running stock navi in 20+ year old trucks.

software updates are only necessary for the first few years of a model's life, as developers smooth out bugs. The longer a vehicle model is on the road the less ongoing software maintenance is required.

 

[Red90]

if the software still needs ongoing support in 10, 15, or 20 years they have bigger problems.

It does. If you change any part that has electronics it needs to be calibrated and configured with the rest of the vehicle systems before it can be used. This can only be done with the proprietary Land Rover systems. If the system crashes and needs to reinstalled, what are you going to do?

Find any 20 year old electronics containing a computer and you will find a huge failure percentage. They only stuff you can keep alive of that age is ones with open source software. All of the proprietary stuff is garbage as factory support is long gone. I deal with this all the time. These vehicles are just much too complex to be able to be in service at 20 years.

 

[JackW]

any news or rumors about if the Defender will be getting a diesel in the US?

According to my source at LRNA no diesel for North America - the diesel didn't sell well enough in the Jaguar and Land Rover lines to show enough demand for the future. EPA cerification is so expensive and California is anti-diesel so probably no diesel for US.

 

[jdlobb]

According to my source at LRNA no diesel for North America - the diesel didn't sell well enough in the Jaguar and Land Rover lines to show enough demand for the future. EPA cerification is so expensive and California is anti-diesel so probably no diesel for US.

that's a shame. The diesel Discovery 5 is great, I'll be hunting for one in a year or 2, unless the new Defender comes out in a diesel.

 

[mpinco]

Actually long term viability of highly computered vehicles will be an issue down the road. While older vehicles did have control systems, they were singular in functionality and embedded designs where a single module could be R&R'd and your done. The newer systems are virtualized and integrated across the vehicle such that they need to be R&R'd with specialized software tools. On one hand the latest hardware should last a long time. The problem will be when it breaks and needs specialized factory tools to replace the embedded 'machine' and return it to service.

 

[JackW]

that's a shame. The diesel Discovery 5 is great, I'll be hunting for one in a year or 2, unless the new Defender comes out in a diesel.

I drove a 2017 D5 diesel for three years and 38k miles and absolutely loved it except for the rear hatch. It was the best road car I've owned and could get over 600 miles on a tank of fuel. The new Defender has better calibrated suspension and a firmer, but more controlled ride. The seats in the D5 were more comfortable but I really like the interior of the Defender. The sound quality in the Defender is better (Meridian in both cars) and phone clarity is better in the Defender. Rear room was more in the Discovery but I really like the rear door of the Defender. I just like the looks of the Defender better, they look a lot better in the metal than on a screen. The proportions just work.

 

[jdlobb]

I drove a 2017 D5 diesel for three years and 38k miles and absolutely loved it except for the rear hatch. It was the best road car I've owned and could get over 600 miles on a tank of fuel. The new Defender has better calibrated suspension and a firmer, but more controlled ride. The seats in the D5 were more comfortable but I really like the interior of the Defender. The sound quality in the Defender is better (Meridian in both cars) and phone clarity is better in the Defender. Rear room was more in the Discovery but I really like the rear door of the Defender. I just like the looks of the Defender better, they look a lot better in the metal than on a screen. The proportions just work.

all that sounds about right, and if it came in a diesel the defender would be the hands down winner, but unfortunately I just can’t justify the mileage of the defender. I got my Disco Sport mostly because it gets over 20mpg, otherwise I would have gotten an LR4. At the time I was shopping all of the diesel D5s I could find were just out of my price range. The Sport has been great though, it’s just not big enough. Living out of it for 2 weeks with 2 adults and a dog was tough.

 

[JackW]

D5 diesel - 21 mpg around town, 31 mpg on the highway.
P300 Defender 16-18 mpg around town, highway - 21? (Don't know yet)

You can buy a nice 2017 diesel D5 for around $35k

 

[jdlobb]

D5 diesel - 21 mpg around town, 31 mpg on the highway.
P300 Defender 16-18 mpg around town, highway - 21? (Don't know yet)

You can buy a nice 2017 diesel D5 for around $35k

Yep. Sounds about right. My DS gets 25+ on the highway unloaded. I got right around 20 averaged over 2,500 miles of mixed use, including a few hundred miles off-road, with a loaded roof rack and stuffed load space.

At the time I was looking there were 2 diesel D5s under $40k in the entire US, the cheapest was $35k with almost 100k miles on the dash.

But in another year or 2 I should be able to spend enough more, and the prices will have come down enough, for the D5 and my budget to meet in the middle.

 

[DieselRanger]

all that sounds about right, and if it came in a diesel the defender would be the hands down winner, but unfortunately I just can’t justify the mileage of the defender. I got my Disco Sport mostly because it gets over 20mpg, otherwise I would have gotten an LR4. At the time I was shopping all of the diesel D5s I could find were just out of my price range. The Sport has been great though, it’s just not big enough. Living out of it for 2 weeks with 2 adults and a dog was tough.

I love my D5 Td6...a D300 would be amazing in the Defender. But sadly, I agree with others that its extremely unlikely they'll bring diesels to the US unless the demand signal changes significantly and the Supreme Court, when it gets there, rules that California can't dictate emissions controls for the rest of the US.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

According to my source at LRNA no diesel for North America - the diesel didn't sell well enough in the Jaguar and Land Rover lines to show enough demand for the future. EPA cerification is so expensive and California is anti-diesel so probably no diesel for US.

Typical “new” LR logic. Offer an engine in two platforms where nobody really wants it, then don’t offer it in the one everybody has been clamoring for and would sell like hot cakes.

 

[jdlobb]

Typical “new” LR logic. Offer an engine in two platforms where nobody really wants it, then don’t offer it in the one everybody has been clamoring for and would sell like hot cakes.

to be fair to LR, the most logical place for it IS in the Discovery, because of the range advantage.

Maybe if the EcoDiesel Jeeps start selling like mad they'll put it in the Defender too.

 

[T-Willy]

What a disaster. But perfectly predictable based on published reports of Land Rover reliability.

 

[mpinco]

What a disaster. But perfectly predictable based on published reports of Land Rover reliability.

Depressing but not unexpected. JLR made a significant course change when sales tanked a few years ago and regulation trajectory became clear. They moved away from purely mechanical systems and heavily invested in their IT / embedded control systems and also began the move to Blackberry QNX. QNX on it own is in 175 million vehicles BUT has to be integrated into the JLR product line. The Defender is early in the intro of the highly complex JLR product line (not that previous JLR product was simple). I've been on the bleeding edge of virtualized systems and it can get even uglier before the issues are sorted.

Thierry Bolloré has a large challenge in front of him. JLR is still in transition as layoffs continue, sales rebound and overall product line is being trimmed/reviewed.