New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[nickw]

How do you know it’s more capable than the old defender?
have your driven one across outback personally?
Old defender proved to be capable for the passed 50 years,
This thing is not out yet properly and people like you Are already spreading the fake news of what’s on paper.

Judging from the LR platforms that have been out for 10+ years now, which are similar, it's easy to see.

I think what you are really alluding to is long term reliability and durability, which, time will tell but is probably never going to match the old Defenders...but it's not a LR problem, you can say the same thing about any of the newer rigs...

 

[Todd n Natalie]

Judging from the LR platforms that have been out for 10+ years now, which are similar, it's easy to see.

I think what you are really alluding to is long term reliability and durability, which, time will tell but is probably never going to match the old Defenders...but it's not a LR problem, you can say the same thing about any of the newer rigs...

I think the opposite is true with a bunch of domestics. I think they’re more reliable now than 20-40 years ago.

 

[nickw]

All your examples either still offer the original line, or despite their differences, are still far more similar to the original than the fashion Defender.


Again, so are several new vehicles, yet none of them are a Defender. The right stats are required, but obviously do not make a Defender in entirety.


There we have it again, the inane idea that I-dont-like-offroad McGovern's "take" was the Defender's destiny, it's final form, that this is what it would have evolved into if there had been more iterations. No, it's a joke no matter how it got here. It was never prophesied that this is what it had to be. The Discovery platform went through several iterations yet still devolved into its current abomination. The reason people don't like it, is because it simply has no similarity to the original. It's as much a Defender as a Wrangler with the badges swapped. Maybe less.

Cool story - doesn't change the fact rigs evolve, can't help you understand that. I cited a number of examples....

 

[nickw]

I think the opposite is true with a bunch of domestics. I think they’re more reliable now than 20-40 years ago.

I'd agree with that!

 

[EricTyrrell]

Cool story - doesn't change the fact rigs evolve, can't help you understand that. I cited a number of examples....

Of course they evolve. They must. However, many products have evolved, and even in their latest iteration, have kept what matters. The fashion Defender has not. It is a failure where others have succeeded.

 

[nickw]

Again, the 50 series was an additional line, not a replacement for the 40/70 series which continued on.

Toyota has fractured their LC lineage, at the time it could very well have been seen as a replacement or a branch from the original at the time that was not worthy of the name...

 

[nickw]

Of course they evolve. They must. However, many products have evolved, and even in their latest iteration, have kept what matters. The fashion Defender has not. It is a failure where others have succeeded.

"Kept what matters"....same old broken record....

 

[EricTyrrell]

"Kept what matters"

Yes, preferably there is some similarity. Otherwise, it's a free for all. Models become meaningless. Call anything whatever you want. Welcome to the Pathfinder world.

 

[EricTyrrell]

it could very well have been seen as a replacement or a branch from the original

Yet it wasn't, and thus it is not comparable to the current situation. There is no modern Defender in production, and that will continue production, while the fashion Defender branches off to conquer the yuppie market.

 

[nickw]

Yes, preferably there is some similarity. Otherwise, it's a free for all. Models become meaningless. Call anything whatever you want. Welcome to the Landcruiser world.

Fixed it for ya....

 

[soflorovers]

Like was mentioned before....this debacle could have been avoided if 1 single person with common sense had spoken up at the preliminary meetings on this vehicle and pleaded to "not sully the Defender name and image"

What makes this new, rebodied D5, a 'Defender'?

Those marketing vids are cool and all, but most any new SUV with AT tires can do most if it, especially if you're not concerned with breakage, like photographers.

The same thing that makes the new 992 a "911". Why aren't you complaining that the 2020 911 isn't close enough to the 930 from the 80's. Ignore the fact that the 911 has since doubled it's gear count from 4 to 8, become water cooled, added over 1000 lbs, added rear steer, etc...

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: The OG Defender is from the 1980's; 40's if you're one of those people that thinks the Series trucks are "Defenders". Were you really expecting anything different in the year 2020? Every single vehicle that has been around since the OG Defender has evolved massively since they were introduced. You shouldn't be mad that LR gave us the 2020 Defender that they did. You should be mad that it took them so long to give it to us. Compare apples to apples. If the current Wrangler had come out immediately after the YJ in the mid 90's, people would be RIOTING and saying: 1) It's become massive; 2) It's become too much of a Grand Cherokee; 3) Why does it have AC and a radio; 4) What's with all these electronics?; 5) 8 speeds? What is this, a bike?; 6) 4 doors? A Jeep needs to be 2-door!

 

[soflorovers]

I'm guessing it's probably going to go the way the LR3/LR4 and Landcruiser 100/200 have went...all the delicate flowers throwing rocks and disliking them initially, calling out the worthless IFS and/or IRS, knee jerk reactions based on their narrow field of view, regurgitation of long held beliefs based down by the 'old timers' or simple lack of knowledge....only to realize a few years later, ok, maybe they were on to something....more capable, easier to drive, better MPG and yeah, being comfortable is a good thing....

I'll never forget when the LC100 came out, guys were up in arms, lots of jokes, lots of the same comments here about it not being a 'real' LC.....well, it's been one of, if not the most popular, reliable and well sorted LC platform of all times....

100%. I don't want to see a single person that bashed the New Defender to buy a post-2004 LR. Period. Full stop. The New Defender will likely become a popular and affordable platform after a few years on the market. I honestly can't wait to pick one up down the line. If I didn't already have my JAAAAAG, I'd consider one for DD duties.

 

[soflorovers]

There was no common direction. Lr3/4 went the boring and unreliable direction, 100 the boring but competent direction, and 200 the boring, rare, and too expensive to be practical direction. Craigslist tells the story of each. The most important "direction" is 4Runner, Wranger, and Tacoma taking over the market.

Boring and unreliable? Where does this come from? I've seen waaaaay more LR3/4 cross the 200k mile barrier than I've seen D1, D2, RRC, P38, etc... As someone who's owned multiple D2s and LR3s, they're nowhere close to each other. You can comfortably daily drive an LR3 with 150k without fear of it leaving you completely stranded. Both of my D2's have left me stranded, and they're both still the only cars to leave me properly on *******ed Island waiting for a tow.

 

[soflorovers]

Judging from the LR platforms that have been out for 10+ years now, which are similar, it's easy to see.

I think what you are really alluding to is long term reliability and durability, which, time will tell but is probably never going to match the old Defenders...but it's not a LR problem, you can say the same thing about any of the newer rigs...

I'll play devil's advocate here... old Defenders aren't exactly what I'd call reliable or durable. Sure, durable can be argued in the sense that they're incredibly modular and it's easy to keep them going without specialized electronic tools to communicate with the various ECUs (Which btw... a GAAP tool is like $600. Stop crying about electronics. Be grateful that we're not dealing with OBD1 here). In the real world however, where they see real duty, most Defenders have been replaced. I have family in Spain that used to use chopped top D110s to transport crew and equipment into mines. They've all been replaced with Land Cruisers. I've been told that maintenance costs aren't even close; more importantly, the down-time is significantly less too. As they say, "Don't get it twisted"... I love the old Defender, but let's not get all teary-eyed and say it was something that it was not.

As for the LR platforms that have been out for 10+ years, they may not be as easy to work on when compared to the old solid axle trucks, but does that really matter if the newer stuff already has a lot more mileage than the older trucks? I think the true testament to the LR3/4/RRS is just how many of them already exist with over 200k miles. What good is this "durability" if a D2 can't go past 100k without blowing up its motor/trans in spectacular fashion? I'm seeing LR3s getting close to that 300k mark. Maybe I'm not the rugged Outback outdoorsman that everyone on here claims to be, but when you get to that sort of mileage, then who cares? I'd rather get to 300k and struggle a bit to replace an air compressor, CVs, etc... than have solid axles but powertrains made out of glass, or ancillaries that originated during the British Leyland years.

 

[JackW]

I'm looking forward to when these get out in the hands of the new owners - I suspect that there will be a lot of very quiet "never minds" once we get our hands on them.
Its amazing how the once reviled LR3 and LR4 have become so revered now that the Discovery 5 is their replacement. Drive a Discovery 5 on a 3000 mile trip and see if you still think they are so horrible.
I've driven my D5 off road and found it to be extremely competent on the same trails I've driven with my Defender 90, Range Rover Classics and LR3. The biggest drawback is that its sort of a fat pig - a few inches wider than it needs to be.
Since the new Defender is narrower and has shorter overhangs I suspect that I'll be pretty happy with it. I know I won't miss the rear lift gate, the rotary shift knob and the piano black trim on the interior of the D5.
I won't expect to drive it down some of the trails I'll happily tackle with my Series IIA's or my Defender but then I really don't want to drive a Series IIA on a 3000 mile trip either.

To me it will be a safe, comfortable, capable Land Rover that will get me where I want to go and looks pretty cool, especially with all of the off road gear I've ordered mine with.