New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[DorB]

What vehicle has done more on its debut; there are a million videos of it floating around touching and thriving in almost all of its intended environments. Yeah, it's marketing, but show me another vehicle or company that is doing the same.

Everyone bitches about JLR not getting back to its roots of overloading and 95% of the Defender's marketing as been just that; yet you still ********** about it.

You're all trolling sheep if you think any of any OEM are doing anything close to what JLR is selling the new Defender as.

Not Jeep, not Toyota, not Mercedes..........nobody is promoting a single vehicle like this in so many environments; NOBODY!

This is where you try to sell me that so many other vehicles are soooooooo proven and the Defender is not. You can't get out of your own ways and stuck in the Stone Age

No.
You can read my previews comments.
I think it’s probably is a very capable SUV.
It’s not a defender

You’re the one how tries so hard to justify something.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[RoyJ]

It's not a defender

If an alien came, saw the 1st Land Cruiser, then saw a 200 Series, he'd say "It's not a LC"

If he saw the 1st Surburban, then a 2020, "it's not a Suburban"

If he saw an 1860's steam engine, then a maglev bullet train, "it's not a train"

Definitions change, we may not like it, but realize us enthusiasts who get emotional over "what is a Defender" represents a very, very small part of the buyers.

Think of it this way, when was the last time you denied a 2020 Hamilton Beach or Kitchenaid appliance, saying "it's not a Hamilton Beach"?

 

[soflorovers]

If an alien came, saw the 1st Land Cruiser, then saw a 200 Series, he'd say "It's not a LC"

If he saw the 1st Surburban, then a 2020, "it's not a Suburban"

If he saw an 1860's steam engine, then a maglev bullet train, "it's not a train"

Definitions change, we may not like it, but realize us enthusiasts who get emotional over "what is a Defender" represents a very, very small part of the buyers.

Think of it this way, when was the last time you denied a 2020 Hamilton Beach or Kitchenaid appliance, saying "it's not a Hamilton Beach"?

You're on point. Some people don't understand that products need to evolve to keep up with advancements in technology, taste, needs, etc... The old stuff will always be around in some form on the secondhand market. The New Defender is a modern interpretation of a Defender. People are just pissed that it doesn't suck more than it does.

EDIT: When I say "suck more than it does", I'm referring to the fact that the New Defender isn't a solid axle, body-on-frame, shed. The New Defender needed to adapt. Last time LR sold more than 1500 Defenders per year in Europe was 2010. Every year since 2010, they've sold less than 1500 per year. The last true year of mass production, 2015, they sold 1237 cars according to this source. In that same year, they sold 140,000 total LR units in Europe. So basically 1/140 cars sold by LR were Defenders, in a region where there were no obstacles/barriers to entry such as our 25 year import ban. So, tell me again... why should LR have made this New Defender the same as the old one? It's clear from the sales figures that those who wanted an old Defender already had one.

Land Rover Sales Figures – Europe Market

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

carsalesbase.com

 

[soflorovers]

Lucky8 will reportedly offer rock sliders at launch. They've already confirmed they are working on them but will probably need some early adopters to validate fitment.

Would love to see what they come up with. I'm guessing quite a few people were at the 4xFar festival taking measurements for accessories. I had a TReK spec one at my local dealer for a few days and I was already poking around it trying to figure out if it was possible to remove the center plastic grill section between the headlights to replace it with a piece that would continue flush to the bottom of the bumper. Also, I'm really really really hoping someone does an OEM quality headlight conversion for the new Defender that gives it proper full-ring headlights.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

The VW Beetle and fiat 500 evolved and changed. But are still recognizable visually as evolutions of the originals.

 

[nickw]

The VW Beetle and fiat 500 evolved and changed. But are still recognizable visually as evolutions of the originals.

Agreed but there can be a fine line between "caricature" of and "inspired" by. I'd prefer manuf. change if they think it's needed and not be constrained by designs 20, 30, 40+ years in the past. The FJ40 was cool and made sense at the time, Toyota kept the "Landcruiser" name and iterated the design into the Wagons due to use case and into what we see today with the 200.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

Agreed but there can be a fine line between "caricature" of and "inspired" by. I'd prefer manuf. change if they think it's needed and not be constrained by designs 20, 30, 40+ years in the past. The FJ40 was cool and made sense at the time, Toyota kept the "Landcruiser" name and iterated the design into the Wagons due to use case and into what we see today with the 200.

I like that certain vehicles reflect the past while offering advancements in tech and performance. Like the new challenger, 2005 mustang for example. But that just my personal preference.

 

[nickw]

I like that certain vehicles reflect the past while offering advancements in tech and performance. Like the new challenger, 2005 mustang for example. But that just my personal preference.

Yeah, that Challenger is awesome, I liked it the minute I saw it, and I personally really like the Mustang Bullit....

 

[DorB]

If an alien came, saw the 1st Land Cruiser, then saw a 200 Series, he'd say "It's not a LC"

Because the 1st LC’s descendent is the 70 series and not the 200..

And if you place the first LC near a 2020 70’ series LC you can clearly see it.

Same for GW.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Would love to see what they come up with. I'm guessing quite a few people were at the 4xFar festival taking measurements for accessories. I had a TReK spec one at my local dealer for a few days and I was already poking around it trying to figure out if it was possible to remove the center plastic grill section between the headlights to replace it with a piece that would continue flush to the bottom of the bumper. Also, I'm really really really hoping someone does an OEM quality headlight conversion for the new Defender that gives it proper full-ring headlights.

Came for the Strawberry cocktails and sick Q-Tip beats, stayed for the product development measurements. lol...

 

[EricTyrrell]

Because the 1st LC’s descendent is the 70 series and not the 200..

And if you place the first LC near a 2020 70’ series LC you can clearly it.

Same for GW.

It's no use trying to explain branching product lines. These are the same guys that wonder why monkeys haven't evolved into humans yet.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Think of it this way, when was the last time you denied a 2020 Hamilton Beach or Kitchenaid appliance, saying "it's not a Hamilton Beach"?

They're still designed to perform the same jobs for the same people. Spot the difference?

 

[EricTyrrell]

You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

You clearly missed the point. The 930 is not an ideal 992 successor.

992 is far more similar and respectful 930 successor than the fashion Defender will ever be to the original.

 

[JeepColorado]

They're still designed to perform the same jobs for the same people. Spot the difference?

I think this is exactly the point- sure, designs change, technologies change, purpose and intent shouldn't. A 2020 Wrangler has the same purpose and intent as the CJ7 despite it being 40 years since. When the purpose and intent changes then the vehicles is truly different- for better or worse. The Chevy Blazer's purpose used to be a fun- top-off, beefy axles, off-road machine- now it's a family-grocery-vanilla cross-over. It's no longer a "Blazer" in the original intent of the word. It's not an evolution of the original- that's what a G-Wagon is, that's what a Wrangler is- the Blazer is a revolution- good or bad depending on whether you want a cross-over or a fun 4x4. The Defender is the Blazer- if you care about a machine designed and built in every way for the original purpose to be an exploration machine- then this has to be a disappointment. If you are more interested in the name Defender and care more about what it appears to be- then your probably happy with this.


....except universally everyone seems to hate the front end!

 

[EricTyrrell]

the Blazer is a revolution- good or bad depending on whether you want a cross-over or a fun 4x4. The Defender is the Blazer- if you care about a machine designed and built in every way for the original purpose to be an exploration machine- then this has to be a disappointment.

I guarantee you some clueless marketing wank thought the world needed another crossover so bad they just had to sacrifice the Blazer name to this noble cause.

If you are more interested in the name Defender and care more about what it appears to be- then your probably happy with this.

Trust fund hipsters and Instagram influencers are going to be all over this thing.