New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[nickw]

Because the 1st LC’s descendent is the 70 series and not the 200..

And if you place the first LC near a 2020 70’ series LC you can clearly it.

Same for GW.

Toyota would disagree:

2020 Toyota Land Cruiser Heritage Edition Is Even More Capable and Luxurious

The Heritage Edition helps justify its eye-popping $88,970 price by providing an extra dose of tasteful quality.

www.caranddriver.com

"To celebrate the Land Cruiser's status as a pivotal part of Toyota’s lineup for more than 60 years, the Heritage Edition was conceived. The latest special-edition Land Cruiser looks back to its past and draws on its . . . Heritage. . . and becomes the 2020 Land Cruiser Heritage Edition. The Toyota Land Cruiser arrived on our shores in 1958 and became an instant icon, a role it has nurtured ever since. Over the years, Toyota has tested dozens of new markets and used the Land Cruiser and its core values of quality, dependability, and reliability to establish the brand in each new market. Once each new market falls for the legendary Land Cruiser, Toyota slowly starts to roll out the rest of its lineup"

Sounds like you are in the camp of it's gotta look the same? Would you be happy if they kept the old Defender body almost identical as it was and designed it for road use on a chassis, say, like a Subaru? You'd be able to clearly see the lineage then....

 

[EricTyrrell]

"To celebrate the Land Cruiser's status as a pivotal part of Toyota’s lineup for more than 60 years, the Heritage Edition was conceived. The latest special-edition Land Cruiser looks back to its past and draws on its . . . Heritage. . . and becomes the 2020 Land Cruiser Heritage Edition. The Toyota Land Cruiser arrived on our shores in 1958 and became an instant icon, a role it has nurtured ever since. Over the years, Toyota has tested dozens of new markets and used the Land Cruiser and its core values of quality, dependability, and reliability to establish the brand in each new market. Once each new market falls for the legendary Land Cruiser, Toyota slowly starts to roll out the rest of its lineup"

The 200, like the 50-series is still a big heavy wagon with better than average off-road capability. It has diverged from the original concept on marketing and price however, driving itself into obscurity.

Sounds like you are in the camp of it's gotta look the same? Would you be happy if they kept the old Defender body almost identical as it was and designed it for road use on a chassis, say, like a Subaru? You'd be able to clearly see the lineage then....

This is either a bad faith argument or you have little imagination for what an honest successor could be. Since you're focused on design, look at the new Bronco. No gay fake treadplate, fake side pillars, obscured alpine windows, random vertical black stripes in the rear, trashy Jeep headlights, and unrecognizable front end. They kept the same basic shape, and modernized it. Whew!, was that so hard? The worst Bronco design component I've seen so far is the dumb BRONCO lettering across the grille, but at least it appears to be optional if you're not the type that needs to scream the brand you fangirl over.

 

[nickw]

I guarantee you some clueless marketing wank thought the world needed another crossover so bad they just had to sacrifice the Blazer name to this noble cause.



Trust fund hipsters and Instagram influencers are going to be all over this thing.

Hate to break it to ya, that ship has long since sailed with the Tacomas (IG) and would certainly be the same case if Toyota ever offered any sort of throwback to the FJ40 as well and/or they offered a 70 here in the states.....which would inevitably be very $$.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

Hate to break it to ya, that ship has long since sailed with the Tacomas (IG) and would certainly be the same case if Toyota ever offered any sort of throwback to the FJ40 as well and/or they offered a 70 here in the states.....which would inevitably be very $$.

I think six figure Syncro Westfalias and Sprinters can fall into that category as well....

 

[nickw]

The 200, like the 50-series is still a big heavy wagon with better than average off-road capability. It has diverged from the original concept on marketing and price however, driving itself into obscurity.

Could say same about the 70...what's your point?

Toyota considers the 200 a descendant of the 40, just like the 10X, 8X, 7X, 6X, 5X, not sure why that's so hard to grasp...

 

[EricTyrrell]

Hate to break it to ya, that ship has long since sailed with the Tacomas (IG) and would certainly be the same case if Toyota ever offered any sort of throwback to the FJ40 as well and/or they offered a 70 here in the states.....which would inevitably be very $$.

It seems we are in agreement that the fashion Defender is designed to perform different jobs for a different market. Sounds like a different product. How about the... Range Rover Influencer. Ah, there we go.


Here we see the Influencer in its natural habitat.

 

[nickw]

I think this is exactly the point- sure, designs change, technologies change, purpose and intent shouldn't. A 2020 Wrangler has the same purpose and intent as the CJ7 despite it being 40 years since. When the purpose and intent changes then the vehicles is truly different- for better or worse. The Chevy Blazer's purpose used to be a fun- top-off, beefy axles, off-road machine- now it's a family-grocery-vanilla cross-over. It's no longer a "Blazer" in the original intent of the word. It's not an evolution of the original- that's what a G-Wagon is, that's what a Wrangler is- the Blazer is a revolution- good or bad depending on whether you want a cross-over or a fun 4x4. The Defender is the Blazer- if you care about a machine designed and built in every way for the original purpose to be an exploration machine- then this has to be a disappointment. If you are more interested in the name Defender and care more about what it appears to be- then your probably happy with this.


....except universally everyone seems to hate the front end!

Wrangler was an iteration of the WW2 Jeeps...so depending on how far back you wanna go, it's intent has 100% changed, but will hand it to Jeep for generally building a 'lifestyle' rig with the same flavor.

Why does the Gwagen get a pass but the Defender doesn't? Because it LOOKS the same? That's in stark contrast to your first sentence of "design, tech and purpose"....It's a long cry from where it started but love to hear why you think what you do.

The Defender is nothing like the new Blazer.

 

[JeepColorado]

Pictures will be flooding Instagram, Starbucks parking lots will be filled; Gravel driveways to Marth's Vineyard Mansions will be "explored" to a high-degree

 

[EricTyrrell]

Why does the Gwagen get a pass but the Defender doesn't?

I don't believe it does in a broad sense. The design and engineering are praised, but is criticised nearly universally for its ridiculous price, market abandonment, and luxury focused trims. It isn't a simple matter of one or the other.

 

[nickw]

It seems we are in agreement that the fashion Defender is designed to perform different jobs for a different market. Sounds like a different product. How about the... Range Rover Influencer. Ah, there we go.

View attachment 584058
Here we see the Influencer in its natural habitat.

Offroad is sexy these days and especially throwback 4x4's....I kick myself every day for selling my super clean 40 10 years ago, it's worth 3x as much now....

 

[nickw]

Pictures will be flooding Instagram, Starbucks parking lots will be filled; Gravel driveways to Marth's Vineyard Mansions will be "explored" to a high-degree

It's the only thing left to explore, the Tacomas already mapped out the Costco lots...

 

[catmann]

The new Defender is like Ouzo or Grappa. It sounds great, even exotic, and it will certainly serve its intended purpose, but it is just going to be a very aquired taste. The design is not going to be universally appreciated, as is indicated by this thread. I think that was LR's goal - to appeal to a wider audience, but I am not sure if they will succeed - especially at the price points they are going to be in.

Same with the D5, it is an excellent vehicle, but no matter how great it is, I'll never have one because my wife thinks it's so butt ugly that she would be embarrased to be seen in one. That's how she feels about the new Defender too - it looks like a character from the Cars movies - like it's almost fake. She hates it with a passion and whether or not it drives better, functions better, is safer, or does X,Y,Z, it does not matter because it is not aesthetically pleasing and that is criteria number one. I'm not sure why she's married to me in that regard .

 

[nickw]

The new Defender is like Ouzo or Grappa. It sounds great, even exotic, and it will certainly serve its intended purpose, but it is just going to be a very aquired taste. The design is not going to be universally appreciated, as is indicated by this thread. I think that was LR's goal - to appeal to a wider audience, but I am not sure if they will succeed - especially at the price points they are going to be in.

Same with the D5, it is an excellent vehicle, but no matter how great it is, I'll never have one because my wife thinks it's so butt ugly that she would be embarrased to be seen in one. That's how she feels about the new Defender too - it looks like a character from the Cars movies - like it's almost fake. She hates it with a passion and whether or not it drives better, functions better, is safer, or does X,Y,Z, it does not matter because it is not aesthetically pleasing and that is criteria number one. I'm not sure why she's married to me in that regard .

I understand, I've always felt the same way about the Toyota FJ Cruiser....but some rigs gradually grow on me and my tastes change over the years. I didn't care for the 1st Gen Tacoma when it first came out, but am a fan now....same for the 80 series when it was introduced. Many vehicles that go on the become icons are not well received at first.....

 

[catmann]

This is 100% true - something about age has a way of adding some refinement to things. She is all about the old Defenders and especially the DI and DII, which is what she pleads me to buy and fix up all the time, I just do not have the time right now to be in the shop 3-6 times per year or I would do it for her! If we could go back in time I bet she would have issue with some of those as well when they were new. So, perhaps in 20 years I'll be an old man cruising around in a 2020 Defender!

 

[nickw]

This is 100% true - something about age has a way of adding some refinement to things. She is all about the old Defenders and especially the DI and DII, which is what she pleads me to buy and fix up all the time, I just do not have the time right now to be in the shop 3-6 times per year or I would do it for her! If we could go back in time I bet she would have issue with some of those as well when they were new. So, perhaps in 20 years I'll be an old man cruising around in a 2020 Defender!

I have the same 'problem', the misses loves the old D90's and she didn't care for my FJ40. My buddy has a D90 and I know for a fact she'd hate driving in it. She also loves the old Scouts...but to your point, I don't have time to work on a rig constantly but I suppose it's a good problem to have and thankfully she's not into VW Karmann Ghia's or big lifted trucks

She really likes the new Bronco...but won't once everybody has them I think things will change.