Todd780
OverCamper
Yes. I understand that.
My point was it's not much of a selling feature. If the one dealer decides to treat people badly, you're kind of hooped regarding sales or service. It's not like you have a choice of 2-3 dealers.
New Defender Rage/Hate Thread
- Thread starter DieselRanger
- Start date
My point was it's not much of a selling feature. If the one dealer decides to treat people badly, you're kind of hooped regarding sales or service. It's not like you have a choice of 2-3 dealers.
AbleGuy
Officious Intermeddler
?????? Very well said. A simple but intelligent philosophy.
Yup. Upper US Midwest and northern Rockies are barren of LR dealers. LR has always been coastal and high income areas. NJ, FL, Houston, LA and Seattle. Not about manufacturing capacity. Dealer location choices are based in zip code income analysis.
nickw
Adventurer
We have a LR dealer here in Portland, just for reference.....and several indy shops that specialize in Rovers, even the newer ones. I believe they have all the diag tools, but Portland does have a strong Rover community....Cruiser community too
T-Willy
Well-known member
This is my favorite passage from this entire thread.
I'd love to hear more about this, and your favorite brand of time machine.
nickw
Adventurer
But realize one mans $70k Jeep is easily anothers $15k Toyota with a $55k trip to Argentina and back...just as one mans fully decked out Earthcruiser can easily be a very small % of his disposable income.....it's relative to ones financial situation.
AbleGuy
Officious Intermeddler
Sure, agreed....and so that philosophy would still apply regardless of one’s income level.
nickw
Adventurer
It's relative to ones income level and isn't an argument for why the LR is inferior as some are making it out to be.
100% agree though, less $ on trucks = more $ on fun....
JeepColorado
Well-known member
Sure, but the benefits of having a vehicle that is in much higher circulation are not. Jeep dealers are everywhere, Jeep parts are everywhere, just about every 4x4 aftermarket company on the face of the planet makes parts for Jeeps which means incredible customization and selection. There aren't many parts on a Jeep that you couldn't change out and make it your own if you wanted to because someone somewhere makes a custom version of it.
One small correction- my Jeep isn't $70K - closer to $60 and even with all of the parts it's less than a similarly-equipped Defender with nothing aftermarket on it.
Todd780
OverCamper
Just saying from a sales and service standpoint, it would be nice to be able to choose between at least 2-3 dealers.
Any vehicle will need servicing so, that was not meant to be a dig at reliability. Also, I don't believe indie services centers would be able to do warranty work, no?
onemanarmy
Explorer
Back to an above point.....yes, the new LC wagons should have been called something else....or 'Land Cruiser xxxxxx' The 55 and 60 and 80 are just rebodied 40/70 series....full LC underneath.
The only Land Cruiser made now is the 70 series, which is the modern iteration/version of the initial 20 series.
This new vehicle is not configurable enough and puts far too much emphasis on styling to be a Defender.
The only Land Cruiser made now is the 70 series, which is the modern iteration/version of the initial 20 series.
This new vehicle is not configurable enough and puts far too much emphasis on styling to be a Defender.
JeepColorado
Well-known member
The simple fact that a Defender is more expensive isn't what makes it an inferior choice- the fact that it's not as good off-road, rides only marginally better than an modern JL, is worlds more complex in it's design, and the best argument that anyone on here can make about LR's reliability relative to Jeeps is that, hey, we know we are on the bottom of reliability, but Jeeps are only slightly better.....AND it's more expensive, is what makes it the inferior choice.
It depends on the warranty the indie my parents use to work on their LR4 from time to time does warranty work. Although they prefer to use our local dealer as they usually give them a free loaner Discovery or Range Rover for as long as the repair takes and they don’t get a loaner with the indie.
nickw
Adventurer
I don't disagree, common vehicle is good, PITA factor is bad....without question, but that would be the same problem even if they kept the 'old' Defender with minor updates....it would still have reasonably complicated systems as vehicles are required to meet emissions, safety and get good fuel mileage which all require computers. That's part of the reason I don't like the idea of rigs like INEOS and why I don't like the idea of having some non-US rig like a LC70 or global spec Gwagen. In saying that, here in Portland and most major areas, LR's are not an issue...
Was pointing out a fully kitted out Jeep, $60k + doodads = $70k, which to many is insane when you can pick up a late model Tacoma with a camper shell, manual trans, engine they use globally for 1/4 of the price....and that Tacoma is insane when you can buy a Merc 240D that is supported across the world as is for $5k leaving even more to travel with....etc. etc.
I still contend, equipped sim, they are much closer in price than your original comments of $50k Jeep vs $70k Defender. MSRP on jeep is mid to high $50k while the Defender is high $50k to low $60k. Forget all the fancy first editions, external storage, etc....
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Corgi_express
Well-known member
based, no doubt on your extensive first hand experience. I have a feeling it will be worse at rock crawling and better at most other things, but I am waiting for the proof now that they are getting delivered... because unlike you I actually let reality form the basis of my opinions, not looking at pictures on the internet.
LOL.
There are plenty of other arguments about reliability being made here, you are just ignoring them. My specific argument was more that if you drive a Jeep you should probably ******** about reliability before Karma comes to bite you and your engine explodes or your welds fall apart.