New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[blackangie]

Vehicle quality and reliability is a moving target. Your competitors are always getting better, as you should too. I'm sure the quality and reliability of a JLR product is higher than 20 years ago. That said, my 98's D1 just keeps motoring along with just the usual oil changes, brakes, hoses after 167K miles.

So time makes it sound good except for JLR when you read of an actual 2019 survey of 44,000 owners ..........

.....That's four times the average for all vehicles, described by experts at the consumer group as 'pretty shocking for such a new car'.

New JLR's, not 20 year old JLR's. And not just 'infotainment' as the experiences also include engine management issues. That 4X warranty cost is rolled up into selling price but even "Luxury" manufactures have to face the music sometime. When the market contracted it left JLR exposed on cost. Solution? Well accounting to write-off billions. That is a short term financial 'fix' that needs a long term solution.

Sorry no your wrong, go check JD.power the only world recognized vehicle reliability pole, check US, check Uk, then check 20 years ago for both.

Then come back and talk to me.

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[blackangie]

The best 'roadside service' is never having to call roadside service.

Thats never going to happen unless you ride a horse

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[blackangie]

Ok, I stand corrected! ..................

Yes you do

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[blackangie]

The observations on the various traction systems was not about rock crawling. It was on broken down granite, shale that you find on a Colorado trail. Just plan around it if you can.

Did you watch the new defender vid testing, moab rock with sand ontop, no probs, acts like lockers f/r

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[John R]

Keen to keep talking about how ancap pedestrian safety is a conspiracy maan

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No one really cares! Sorry, but we’re all over it.

 

[blackangie]

So I only now read a few of the posts and find it funny that my main issue with the new Defender is mostly functional use of space and it's lack of size. I was excited about the D5 until I saw it's energy efficient but space deficient EGG shape and idiotic lift gate removing many uses of a long roof vehicle, not to mention how the interior seats became less modular and the windows less tall.

The new Defender is too damn small for my preferences and uses but I have not measured one to see exactly where it's worst limitations exist.

I need a 29r mtb to roll in upright without front tire and have plenty of room above to have a netted storage area. LR3/4 does this easily.
Sleeping on 16" or so raised level with ample 75" back of center console to tailgate door.
Long roof for minimum 90" rack (basically a Disco 2 standard length rack which is what I have on the LR3)
Easily modular seats in the rear to choose which stay or are removed and not a giant hassle.

Plenty of room

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[blackangie]

No one really cares! Sorry, but we’re all over it.

It was tongue in cheek

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[Pilat]

Thats never going to happen unless you ride a horse

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In that case, "road side service" is a man with a shotgun, lol.

 

[mpinco]

Sorry no your wrong, go check JD.power the only world recognized vehicle reliability pole, check US, check Uk, then check 20 years ago for both.

Then come back and talk to me.

You know, this has become a Luxury Defender religious event, not a discussion of actual pros and cons and heads-up. Personal attacks are based on your compliance to a religion, that no one can highlight their points. Only over the top gushing praise is allowed. JD Powers is actually a good example of that religion. They survey for initial quality and "dependability" where that is only for the first 3 years of ownership or less than probably 100% of warranties. The expected life of a vehicle is much longer than 3 years.

Let's look at the Nissan Altima. Per JD Power it is:



How "Great" is the Altima's actual dependability? So great that they had to extend the warranty of their transmissions because of early failure, poor 'dependability' and declining customer satisfaction.

Why do Nissan CVT transmissions fail?
Nissan CVT transmissions are known to run hot and cause premature failure. Some speculate that the cause of the overheating is undersized cooling systems. When the Nissan CVT overheats, driver's complain of shaking, shuddering and vibration while accelerating and an overall lack of acceleration.May 2, 2019

Do Nissan Altimas have transmission problems?
Nissan CVT issues are common among Nissan vehicles. ... From 2012 to 2018, several models of Nissan vehicles received the transmission, including the Sentra, Versa, Versa Note, Altima, Rogue, and Murano models. Some of the most common issues with the vehicles directly relate to the transmission.

There is currently a Lemon Law case pending against Nissan for their JD Power "Great!" vehicle dependability.

JD Powers has morphed into a marketing company for the manufacturers, carefully crafting their timelines for outcome. I have never even considered JD Powers as this is obvious. Where do I go for perspectives? That actual vehicle owner forums that are a MUCH better measure of whatever metric you are looking for. As the survey of 44,000 owners highlighted LR was characterized as "abysmal" with respect to their peers, even for recent year products.

Time to tone down the religious fever and let people highlight the pros and cons without personal attacks.

 

[Pilat]

You know, this has become a Luxury Defender religious event, not a discussion of actual pros and cons and heads-up. Personal attacks are based on your compliance to a religion, that no one can highlight their points. Only over the top gushing praise is allowed.[...
[...]

Time to tone down the religious fever and let people highlight the pros and cons without personal attacks.

There are NO "personal attacks" anywhere in what you quoted. None at all. And I haven't seen any personal attacks at all in this thread, although the following from you comes awfully close:

Time to tone down the religious fever

Also, it is evident with your latest post that you want carte blanche to not be countered when you make up stuff as you have done numerous times in this thread. It's quite dishonest to pretend to be a victim as you do over and over again in your post.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Plenty of room

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Looks exactly like every other SUV and crossover on the market. Where's the innovation to deliver a product that's as tough and utilitarian as the Defender name suggests? Embed airline track in the floor, get rid of the vents and buttons or move them up high to avoid getting dirty or hit by shifting cargo, fold-out sides that protect the door cards and front seats when the rear seats are folded down for cargo holding... Maybe those ideas suck, but I shouldn't be the one brainstorming this stuff. It was their job and they delivered a Discovery 5 with embossed faux tread plate flooring.

 

[mpinco]

Agreed, the Luxury Defender is what the D5 should have been. As already highlighted in the press LR intentionaly moved the Defender "up-market".

 

[TrekkerOutdoors]

I'm 6th in line at my dealership for ordering the new Defender. I don't know the last time I saw so many people get triggered over a new model, of course it is replacing the iconic Defender. Oh well, I'm used to being an outcast, even among the LR crowd because I drive a LR4. Even though it's 8 years old now, the old Defender and Series crowd hate it because it's too modern. The Disco 1 and 2 guys hate it because with Terrain Response, it makes most obstacles look easy and I don't have the dreaded "Tres Amigos" problem. Did I mention that my other vehicle is a Range Rover Evoque? I love that thing too! Sorry, I just don't get butthurt over the modern Land Rover products and I sorta like the direction the brand is heading.

 

[blackangie]

In that case, "road side service" is a man with a shotgun, lol.

Im hoping your meaning to scare it to get going again

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[mpinco]

The Range Rover Evoque has done well. In many ways it saved LR. As I discussed with the dealer and they agreed, the Evoque was a 'fashion statement'. Personally I hate the vehicle, both from looks and as a loaner. It cheapens the Range Rover brand. To each his own.