New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[JeepColorado]

Was it you who was asking about our moderation skills? In any case here is the problem with this posting.

The first sentence is correct. It is along the spirit of this thread - saying negative things about the new Defender. Even better that's it's the 100th times, it keeps the thread alive and generates traffic.

The second sentence is incorrect. You are directly sending a personal attach to another member. This person may respond with another direct attack and then the thread degenerates and then we are forced to intervene, which sucks for everyone.

Hope this helps to clarify. Happy Friday.

I've got no issue with vigilance around personal attacks as a moderator- we should be talking about the Defender and not each other personally. I've been debating @DieselRanger on the Defender since before this thread even began and he's never once insulted me. I respect his engineering knowledge although I disagree with a lot he says about the Defender.

It makes me curious though when I see a certain individual on here who called me a "Mook" which means stupid/incompetent person and told me to "********" which I'm pretty sure was a not nice way of telling me to be quite. Yet, this person just keeps getting to post here- Ironically, this very person "liked" your post about manners on this forum today!

There's another regular poster on here that has made fun of what I paid for my vehicle, implied that the way I modified my Jeep is not the way the "smart" guys are doing it, told me that my off-roading is only for the Instagram shots, which I'm sure he didn't mean as a compliment, and insisted that because I wouldn't meet him in the woods that I must lack "real" driving ability and has repeatedly called me a troll. Yet again, this person just continues to post with no comment from the Moderator the way you did with Red90.

Not sure why that is

 

[mpinco]

The Defender may be rated at 8K but its loss of weight is a negative relative to towing. I prefer my trailer to weigh less than the tow vehicle and in fact to be derated even further from that relationship. The terrain for me is mountain passes. So while the Defender is rated at 8Klbs, I would keep the towed weight at 80% or less of the vehicle weight. That's 3800 lbs or less for the current LR product line.

In summary the new Defender is a 1/2 ton pickup while the LR3/4 was a 3/4 ton pickup. Purely off-road that is a plus as weight can be an issue. Overall it may be a negative for others.

E-rated tires may ride harsher but the sidewall's don't flex side to side when towing. The overall truck is more 'planted' with load range E. I don't mind the loss of softness in ride and in fact for me the truck feels better.

 

[Blaise]

You may 'prefer' a heavier tow vehicle, but SAE specs are an accepted standard by engineering experts, not a personal preference. If you put 1k lb extra weight into your tow vehicle, your GCWR drops.

Yep, for towing an E tire may be better for your use. I prefer the more compliant ride

 

[Corgi_express]

It makes me curious though when I see a certain individual on here who called me a "Mook" which means stupid/incompetent person and told me to "********" which I'm pretty sure was a not nice way of telling me to be quite. Yet, this person just keeps getting to post here- Ironically, this very person "liked" your post about manners on this forum today!

I am sorry I called you a mook for posting obviously factually incorrect information and then using it to attack the designers at JLR.

I liked the post about manners because I think it's a good reminder (yes, even for me), and because I am sick of disingenuous comments, factually incorrect statements used in attempt to put others down, and low effort trolling, all of which any discussion about the new Defender has in spades.

 

[DieselRanger]

I've got no issue with vigilance around personal attacks as a moderator- we should be talking about the Defender and not each other personally. I've been debating @DieselRanger on the Defender since before this thread even began and he's never once insulted me. I respect his engineering knowledge although I disagree with a lot he says about the Defender.

You're a master debater, and I'm a cunning linguist.

 

[Buliwyf]

I don't get it. Rover already makes yuppie girl SUV's. Why make another one?

It's like, as if Dodge wanted to compete with the new Bronco, so they slap a Ramcharger sticker on a Caravan.

 

[Blaise]

Is the truck they've been touring through Tanzania the 'yuppie girl' one? lol

 

[JeepColorado]

It seems that the definition of trolling on this thread for some people has grown to mean anyone who has a negative opinion of the Defender- which is odd not just because it includes way more than what would normally be considered trolling anywhere else on the internet, i..e. negative opinions are not by themselves- trolling, but also because this is the Defender Hate/Rage Thread- its the place for negative opinions of the Defender! If anything, those posting positive opinions of the Defender are trolling this thread.

Things That Should NOT be Trolling on this Thread-

- To say that the Defender is not the old defender nor what most people liked about the old defender- it isn't- LR admits as much itself- they've touted it as a different vehicle and different direction- the very things that made the Defender an Icon, are NOT this vehicle. Maybe it's better, maybe it's worse, but the formula that made the original an Icon cannot be found now at LR. The closest you'll find it in any vehicle today has a 7-slot grill.

- To say that LR prioritizes on-road comfort at the sake of off-road ability - it is not the best off-roader you can buy - maybe that trade-off is worth it for you, but that doesn't change the fact

- To cite the overwhelming and well-documented several years history of LR having atrocious reliability and acknowledging that that reasonably gives people cause for concern

- To note that there is a much less robust aftermarket for LR than basically any other vehicle most of us would consider such as a Jeep or a Toyota - i see what Lucky 8 is doing and it is AWESOME! Hopefully, others will follow


I'm not a troll- I have a different opinion about a vehicle. I hope it proves worthy, I really do- I'm thrilled to see the 4x4 market blow up- the other day a top Ford Executive trash-talked Jeep saying that the new Bronco will be a far superior product. I hope it is- Jeep hasn't had any real competition at the top of the 4x4 food chain in a looong time!

 

[Blaise]

Around here, the wives and daughters of business owners love prancing around in shiny black LR4s. I'm sure they'll love the new Defender. Gwagens are sooo yesterday now.

I'm certain you're correct. But same is true for Wrangler Rubicon owners.

Or 911 owners who do nothing but cruise down the highway. Or diesel truck owners who never haul more than a bed full of air. I'm not gonna hate the truck just based on who else may own one.

Kind of rough to hate on the 6.0 ford. That engine was killed by emissions regulation.

 

[JeepColorado]

Around here, the wives and daughters of business owners love prancing around in shiny black LR4s. I'm sure they'll love the new Defender. Gwagens are sooo yesterday now.

It's one of the things that is just so completely true about them here as well- roaming the Starbucks. About the most you'll see one using 4x4 is when it snows and the families are headed to Vail. I can honestly say I've only seen 1 LR on the trail my 4 years roaming the backwoods of Colorado. It was a Disco 2 on 35s and while I realize what I'm opening myself up for around here I will admit that at the time it came driving up I was stuck in our Grand Cherokee and he pulled me out!

 

[JeepColorado]

I'm certain you're correct. But same is true for Wrangler Rubicon owners.

Or 911 owners who do nothing but cruise down the highway. Or diesel truck owners who never haul more than a bed full of air. I'm not gonna hate the truck just based on who else may own one.

Kind of rough to hate on the 6.0 ford. That engine was killed by emissions regulation.

I beg to differ- I have no doubt that Rubicon owners have a much higher use rate of their 4x4 systems than LR. No doubt, there are people who bling out the Jeeps etc... but it doesn't take much scrolling on any Jeep forum or a visit to any trail system to understand that Jeep Wrangler owners use their Jeeps as 4x4s.

 

[Buliwyf]

I don't worry about pin striping something as ugly as a jeep either.

 

[T-Willy]

It's one of the things that is just so completely true about them here as well- roaming the Starbucks. About the most you'll see one using 4x4 is when it snows and the families are headed to Vail. I can honestly say I've only seen 1 LR on the trail my 4 years roaming the backwoods of Colorado. It was a Disco 2 on 35s and while I realize what I'm opening myself up for around here I will admit that at the time it came driving up I was stuck in our Grand Cherokee and he pulled me out!

This took courage.

 

[mpinco]

LOL. Running Engineers Pass some lady in a 4 person atv yelled " I wouldn't bring my LR4 up here! ". The only vehicles we saw were Jeeps, Yotas and Scouts.

 

[T-Willy]

It seems that the definition of trolling on this thread for some people has grown to mean anyone who has a negative opinion of the Defender- which is odd not just because it includes way more than what would normally be considered trolling anywhere else on the internet, i..e. negative opinions are not by themselves- trolling, but also because this is the Defender Hate/Rage Thread- its the place for negative opinions of the Defender! If anything, those posting positive opinions of the Defender are trolling this thread.

Things That Should NOT be Trolling on this Thread-

- To say that the Defender is not the old defender nor what most people liked about the old defender- it isn't- LR admits as much itself- they've touted it as a different vehicle and different direction- the very things that made the Defender an Icon, are NOT this vehicle. Maybe it's better, maybe it's worse, but the formula that made the original an Icon cannot be found now at LR. The closest you'll find it in any vehicle today has a 7-slot grill.

- To say that LR prioritizes on-road comfort at the sake of off-road ability - it is not the best off-roader you can buy - maybe that trade-off is worth it for you, but that doesn't change the fact

- To cite the overwhelming and well-documented several years history of LR having atrocious reliability and acknowledging that that reasonably gives people cause for concern

- To note that there is a much less robust aftermarket for LR than basically any other vehicle most of us would consider such as a Jeep or a Toyota - i see what Lucky 8 is doing and it is AWESOME! Hopefully, others will follow


I'm not a troll- I have a different opinion about a vehicle. I hope it proves worthy, I really do- I'm thrilled to see the 4x4 market blow up- the other day a top Ford Executive trash-talked Jeep saying that the new Bronco will be a far superior product. I hope it is- Jeep hasn't had any real competition at the top of the 4x4 food chain in a looong time!

Amen.

Discussion of Land Rover's legendary reliability showed the enthusiast community's spectacular capacity for intellectual freedom--rivaled only by the likes of, I'd say, the Flat Earth Society.