New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[85_Ranger4x4]

I guess I'm different. I care how it drives and how it performs. I don't care who mistakes it for what. If Hyundai came out with a better driving, capable SUV that hit all my needs, I'd buy it. Even if it looked like an Elantra. I've got nothing to prove to anyone.

I like things that are different.

My "different" isn't understood by most, I just do it for me.

Since they made the same shaped carcass forever I think they might have something of a following that liked it though. Like to the point some enthusiasts are getting together to make their own version of it.

 

[Carson G]

I genuinely think the New Bronco is going to "tank" (It's all relative) NAS 90 prices. Don't get me wrong, Nantucket and the Hamptons (I.e the "Old Money") will always keep their NAS 90's, but I have a feeling many people who aren't uber-wealthy but have an NAS 90 will consider swapping. At the end of the day, there's no denying that the 2020 Bronco is a direct competitor for someone who wants a reliable JL Wrangler alternative.

I really hope Classic Defender prices tank especially a clean ROW 110 LHD.

 

[BigSwede]

I can see updating. But you pull the badges off the new Defender it could be mistaken for a Scion. Or a Hyundai. Or any other appliance SUV out there.

My first thought when I saw the new Defender was "Robocop!"

 

[DieselRanger]

It's interesting that LR doesn't advertise or even publish these numbers above the 11.5" ground clearance. The Defender brochure says 11.5" Maximum ground clearance and when you read about the electronic suspension it mentions that the extended mode is automatic if the vehicle is grounded then says that it can be extended further manually through the controls, but it doesn't give the increase above 11.5 for either extended mode or the manually controlled super-extended mode.

In Super Extended mode, total ground clearance is 13.9" on the D5 but there is zero droop - it's really there to get you off a high-center or similar obstacle, it's not a valid driving mode. You can't turn your wheels to full lock in SE mode. I think the Defender's air suspension allows some droop even in Super Extended but I can't find anywhere whether the max height is the same or whether they take a little off to allow for the droop - but the Defender does crosslink its EAS to provide more articulation than fully independently air sprung corners.

 

[T-Willy]

Price would be my main reason for not getting one. They’re more expensive new and used than the equivalent Defender.

Our 80 Series, when our family got it new in 1992, was about $48,000 in 2020 dollars. The gentrification of Land Cruiser in the past two decades, where its reliability and capability can only be had draped in expensive and needless luxury, is in my opinion a great tragedy. Luckily, or fatefully, the 80 Series to this day is still dead reliable and a slow but comfortable and capable touring platform.

 

[Carson G]

Our 80 Series, when our family got it new in 1992, was about $48,000 in 2020 dollars. The gentrification of Land Cruiser in the past two decades, where its reliability and capability can only be had draped in expensive and needless luxury, is in my opinion a great tragedy. Luckily, or fatefully, the 80 Series to this day is still dead reliable and a slow but comfortable and capable touring platform.

If they would offer some more basic trim levels Toyota could make a killing especially if they brought in the D4D.

 

[T-Willy]

If they would offer some more basic trim levels Toyota could make a killing especially if they brought in the D4D.

I agree. There's vigorous debate about that in LC circles. Toyota, as we all know, is very conservative, and their global reach renders U.S. Land Cruiser sales not that important.

 

[DieselRanger]

Yeah, you're right. I'm gonna hit up the Honda dealer and spec 32" duratracs on my Accord. brb.

A Lifted Honda Fit Modified for Off-roading - Compact Overland Build

This Honda Fit Battlewagon is 4" lifted with strut spacers, fitted with 30" A/T tires and modified by Jeff Palma for real off roading and overland exploration. It features a 2.5” front and 4” rear lift along with massive tires.

offroadium.com

 

[Carson G]

I agree. There's vigorous debate about that in LC circles. Toyota, as we all know, is very conservative, and their global reach renders U.S. Land Cruiser sales not that important.

It really irks me that I can’t import a 2016 Defender or a lower spec diesel 200 or LC79. Good ole land of the free.

 

[DieselRanger]

For the 1000th time, the replacement is more capable than the old defender. It may not make sense to you, but as somebody who's done 35k miles around the PNW over the last 2 years (and 50k miles previously during a long-term trip across the entire country), I can't go back to a noisy uncomfortable truck which is better on hardcore 4x4 trails that I almost never encounter. Note: I don't avoid them, they just don't exist outside of a 4x4 park. I stupidly fell for the 'you need 33" E-rated tires and rock rails and a lift to travel' mentality which seems to be extremely popular around here. Now I'm on 31s and on air ride and I still never find the truck holding me back. So why would I compromise comfort to get 35s?

If you haven't tried air ride, I suggest you do. You'll see why folks are fussing over it.

PS: Haven't noticed anyone comment about how the new bronco has less suspension travel than the new Defender. Things that make you go HMMMMMMMM

...And also it's all "BRONCO HAZ 35's" but when you compare the geometries to the Defender and the D5 on 32" and 31" tires, the Bronc *needs* 35" tires to just barely beat both. And *unless* you get 35's, the numbers are the same or worse.

 

[Buliwyf]

Can I put 35's on the Defender?

I currently have 11 (drag-able) inches under my rear pumpkin, and 17" under my skidplate. Seems like plenty. If either is close to those #'s and shorter.

My point is, that it's important to know where and what the ground clearance number is from. 11" is plenty for a cast iron piece with a 3/8" plate steel armor diff cover, or a solid billet shock mount. Those are tough and can bounced off anything. My 17" fuel tank skid plate.........not so much. When that ''sings out'' on a rock, I'm backing off.

The Bronco appears to have 16-17" under it's belly. In this pic, at least 17". About half the ht of the tires.

What I Found When I Crawled Under The 2020 Land Rover Defender

I just crawled under the 2020 Land Rover Defender—the unibody, independent suspension-equipped successor to a legendary body-on-frame, solid-axle off-roader.

jalopnik.com

Looks like it's got my Mustang beat for ground clearance though:

 

[Blaise]

You aren't doing anything with a new Defender except posting about how you hate it.

 

[JeepColorado]

...And also it's all "BRONCO HAZ 35's" but when you compare the geometries to the Defender and the D5 on 32" and 31" tires, the Bronc *needs* 35" tires to just barely beat both. And *unless* you get 35's, the numbers are the same or worse.

I completely agree with you, but doesn't that also get at part of the problem with the Defender? It's as if they don't get that the 4x4 world, (recreational, backcountry adventuring, or overlanding) for the most part want their vehicle to look the part. I get that not everyone cares, but I'd say the vast majority of 4x4 enthusiasts want to start with a foundation that looks the part and then want to customize it from there. Both of which the Defender loses to the Wrangler or Bronco.

I get that it's a reflection of British understatement and doesn't have to be 'Murica the way Jeep may be to some, but could "understated" not have come through as "functional tool" rather than "boring appliance"?

 

[Buliwyf]

 

[JeepColorado]

LR had a choice- they could either do this-







OR, they could do this-

Original Pathfinder


Modern Pathfinder




Search your heart and soul LR faithful.....





You know which direction they went and that's an absolute loss to the 4x4 community.