New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Pilat]

Could not agree more. It's funny how gazing from afar in these threads the zealots and people that have some actual real wold experience and an easy logic to their arguments stand out from each other. The zealots are the same no matter what the Brand may be. But they always share the same complete utter lack of self realization that they are zealots. ?

You both need to look up the word "irony".

 

[roving1]

Unless you can answer how you overcome the physics of the wheels being connected, I think I can safely say you're yet another waster of my time. You really a luddite - to the extent that you will not research anything and continue to use arguments that would make an ignorant rock crawler proud.

How do you solve the problems caused by the wheels being connected?

Dude,

It's painfully obvious you barely even understand some of the tenets you are talking about.

I've spent some time around people tuning rally suspension and rebuilding shocks. A little around desert stuff. Current job has me rubbing elbows with OEM suspension engineers and vehicle dynamics engineers. By far not an expert on the subject but most of the points people are presenting to you are spot on and built on sound principles.

I mean argue all you want but anyone with real knowledge and experience is basically just rolling their eyes at you.

 

[Pilat]

Dude,

It's painfully obvious you barely even understand some of the tenets you are talking about.

I've spent some time around people tuning rally suspension and rebuilding shocks. A little around desert stuff. Current job has me rubbing elbows with OEM suspension engineers and vehicle dynamics engineers. By far not an expert on the subject but most of the points people are presenting to you are spot on and built on sound principles.

I mean argue all you want but anyone with real knowledge and experience is basically just rolling their eyes at you.

Yeah, you just keep your solid axles.I am glad you have "spent time around" someone who runs solid axle. I'm sure that must mean you then somehow knows what you're talking about.

Technology and the entire world has come to the conclusion that the best way to get rid of the problems caused by a rigid connection between wheels as well as the associated huge amounts of unsprung weight because of it, can be easily solved by getting rid of that connection.

As suspension has evolved, solid axles has been left behind for good reason. First invented in 1922, independent front suspension was already common 10 years later.
Go ahead and buy (and use) that wrangler, or that baja runner, the rest of the world has evolved.

 

[roving1]

Yeah, you just keep your solid axles.I am glad you have "spent time around" someone who runs solid axle. I'm sure that must mean you then somehow knows what you're talking about.

Technology and the entire world has come to the conclusion that the best way to get rid of the problems caused by a rigid connection between wheels as well as the associated huge amounts of unsprung weight because of it, can be easily solved by getting rid of that connection.

As suspension has evolved, solid axles has been left behind for good reason. First invented in 1922, independent front suspension was already common 10 years later.
Go ahead and buy (and use) that wrangler, or that baja runner, the rest of the world has evolved.

Nice Wikipedia argument, ?

Completely just assumes I am running a solid axle vehicle because he can't fathom anyone running IFS that disagrees with him. Oh man thanks for the laugh. I mean the one Pic is my avatar. So hard to figure out lol.

 

[al_burpe]

At one time mentioned as built in India. Will basically be a smaller Defender body on the Evoque-like platform. Think Mini Countryman. A low-cost car-like 'Defender'. Engine size less than 2.0L. There is also thoughts to offer it across Jaguar and RR but with different features.

You are right. It appears to be a different vehicle altogether. Another article I read said this cheap version probably won't even be called a Defender.

 

[Pilat]

Nice Wikipedia argument, ?

Completely just assumes I am running a solid axle vehicle because he can't fathom anyone running IFS that disagrees with him. Oh man thanks for the laugh. I mean the one Pic is my avatar. So hard to figure out lol.

View attachment 555295View attachment 555295View attachment 555296

"Wikipedia argument"?
You're just like that other bloke who thought that no one could possibly know anything more than him without googling it.
But okay, if you think I wikipedia'd it, perhaps not that much actual knowledge rubbed off on you from "being around people" who ran solid axles. At best, people running solid axles for anyhing other than rock crawling (or to be cheap) perhaps aren't the best to teach others about suspension technology, as they have chosen just about the worst type of suspension there is - especially on the front.

I don't assume you're running a solid axle vehicle. I assume you're arguing that solid axle vehicles are just as good as IFS (or IS). What you actually drive doesn't really matter. You're still arguing the point that solid axles are great, when in fact they have problems at speeds anywhere above crawling speeds compared to IFS.

 

[roving1]

"Wikipedia argument"?
You're just like that other bloke who thought that no one could possibly know anything more than him without googling it.
But okay, if you think I wikipedia'd it, perhaps not that much actual knowledge rubbed off on you from "being around people" who ran solid axles. At best, people running solid axles for anyhing other than rock crawling (or to be cheap) perhaps aren't the best to teach others about suspension technology, as they have chosen just about the worst type of suspension there is - especially on the front.

I don't assume you're running a solid axle vehicle. I assume you're arguing that solid axle vehicles are just as good as IFS (or IS). What you actually drive doesn't really matter. You're still arguing the point that solid axles are great, when in fact they have problems at speeds anywhere above crawling speeds compared to IFS.

I snipped his comment before he figured out his mistake that the Taco is not not a front solid axle vehicle. Clearly a bastion of real world knowledge and experience is at work here.

 

[Pilat]

LOL I snipped his comment before he figured out his mistake that the Taco is not not a solid axle vehicle lol. Clearly a bastion of real word knowledge and experience is at work here.

View attachment 555297

Good for you. The mistake I made was that I thought you'd be as stupid as the other bloke. That was the assumption. I hadn't realised you were just trying to make the argument that it mattered which type of vehicle you drove, as if that had any bearing on the validity of your argument. You're still arguing that solid axle can be at least as good as independent suspension (above rock crawling speeds).

Should I also ask you how you get rid of the problem of having the two wheels rigidly connected? And remember, you can't separate them to solve the problem. Perhaps some of that "knowledge" rubbed off on you, since the engineering solution is to separate them.

 

[roving1]

Good for you. The mistake I made was that I thought you'd be as stupid as the other bloke. I hadn't realised you were just trying to make the argument that it mattered which type of vehicle you drove, as if that had any bearing on the validity of your argument.

You made that argument in your comment not me. Project much? Also man, you are really bad at reading comprehension. Solid amusement, thanks.

 

[Pilat]

You made that argument in your comment not me. Project much? Also man, you are really bad at reading comprehension. Solid amusement, thanks.

Yes, I made the assumption you would actually try to argue you point, not that you would try to somehow lend credence to your argument by posting something else. Something completely irrelevant.


My reading comprehension is usually just fine. It is just that when I deal with people who won't listen to reason, are using "arguments" such as "I know someone who does x, so it must have rubbed on on me", and who tries to argue without any engineering insight, unwilling to even consider physics, yes, then I don't read the comments as deeply as I'd otherwise do.
They have shown themselves to not know anything about suspension. Just like the full-keel boaters I mentioned earlier.
They might be able to wrench on that old thing, but that doesn't mean they know anything about the engineering, nor anything other than their own wrenching.

 

[lumpskie]

you are really bad at reading comprehension. Solid amusement, thanks.

^This! That guy cracks me up!

 

[roving1]

Yes, I made the assumption you would actually try to argue you point, not that you would try to somehow lend credence to your argument by posting something else. Something completely irrelevant.


My reading comprehension is usually just fine. It is just that when I deal with people who won't listen to reason, are using "arguments" such as "I know someone who does x, so it must have rubbed on on me", and who tries to argue without any engineering insight, unwilling to even consider physics, yes, then I don't read the comments as deeply as I'd otherwise do.
They have shown themselves to not know anything about suspension. Just like the full-keel boaters I mentioned earlier.
They might be able to wrench on that old thing, but that doesn't mean they know anything about the engineering, nor anything other than their own wrenching.

My retort was directly related to the words you typed, nothing more or less. Twist it however you like, it just makes you look bad.

In the spirit of invitations come on over to Detroit. Come hang out and spend the day talking to OEM engineers and listening to best current practices and theory. Then listen to how all that gets put in a giant blender shaped by market demands and corporate bean counters, and manufacturing needs and then emerges as the suspensions on real word vehicles. Or just keep doing your delusion thing. Either or kinda thing.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Should I also ask you how you get rid of the problem of having the two wheels rigidly connected?

For the Defender market, which doesn't demand it, you don't. The ride quality of a P38, a huge improvement, would be beyond acceptable without over-complicating what should be a relatively simple vehicle.

 

[Pilat]

My retort was directly related to the words you typed, nothing more or less. Twist it however you like, it just makes you look bad.

Whatever.

In the spirit of invitations come on over to Detroit. Come hang out and spend the day talking to OEM engineers and listening to best current practices and theory. Then listen to how all that gets put in a giant blender shaped by market demands and corporate bean counters, and manufacturing needs and then emerges as the suspensions on real word vehicles. Or just keep doing your delusion thing. Either or kinda thing.

Actually, I could invite you to come to Europe and talk to any suspension engineer of your choosing. Your claims and suggestions are ridiculous. To the point where you think that by offering an "invite" you somehow prove your point.

I am still waiting for the likes of you to come up with a solution that gets rid of the problems of a front solid axle without getting rid of the connection. You all fall down on that, and you had the nerve to accuse me of "projection" earlier, when now you're saying I'm delusional. So what is it? Put up or shut up: Solve the problems of having the wheels connected without disconnecting them. No amount of spring and shock fiddling will solve this, so please do tell how it can be done. A solid axle is cheaper, so I'm sure the actual OEMs of the world would be very happy if they could make something as good as their IS systems but at a cheaper price.

So, how do you solve that problem? It's an engineering problem, so the solid axle types you were "around" surely must have rubbed off on you enough for you to know the answer.

 

[EricTyrrell]

No there is an 18" alloy wheel available as well. I don't think that 19's are offered, which is fine because the selection of good 19" tires is very limited ( as well as 17" tires). Tire manufacturers are starting to offer some good 20" tire choices.

I see in the brochure "18" STYLE 5094, 5 SPOKE, SATIN DARK GREY ". Strange it does not show in the configurator.