New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Pilat]

I missed this because you are on my ignore-list and I can only see your post when other people quote you.

oh you 2 are so cute
You know so much about science,

There is no evidence that newer cars with there shape kill Less ppl,
If a person survives in a car accident in newer vehicle, it’s because the airbags, head rests, more padded items and ever growing popcorn design/shape of newer cars,
Pedestrian survival is absolutely unpredictable regardless of the shape of the car,
Outside shape has nothing to do with anything.

go on argue how you know everything and when you done with your argument, speak to any highway patrol officer and ask if outside shape maters,
They see plenty of fatal accidents in new cars.

You don't have to "know everything" to know more than you and that a highway officer can only offer anecdotal evidence of the worst of pedestrian hits. Highways are not really where most pedestrians are hit.
Just like the two other people, you argue the nonsense that pedestrian-friendly design doesn't work since they don't stop all deaths in all circumstances. Yeah, no one is saying that, so you're back to your dishonesty.

I knew there was a reason you were on the list. You just jolted my memory.

 

[Christian P.]

Let's get back on track.

The Defender looks like a bloated Kia Soul.

 

[Pilat]

Let's get back on track.

The Defender looks like a bloated Kia Soul.

Due to its straight roof or due to having leds as daytime driving lights?

Edit: I actually like the Soul. I don't like the rear, though; it looks like a reversed and shortened Fiat Multipla:

 

[blackangie]

Let's get back on track.

The Defender looks like a bloated Kia Soul.

Keen to keep talking about how ancap pedestrian safety is a conspiracy maan

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[billiebob]

I think the New Defender is the best 4x4 ever made on the face of the earth, and will forever be better than any other 4x4 at everything. It can literally do anything and go anywhere.

Discuss.

Absolutely !!!

When new they are incredible !!

But on an off road 4x4 I prefer simplicity. Even my 15 year old Rubicon is too new for me. As soon as you involve electronics with the drive line, problems, gremlins are just a matter of time. 15 years old, 240K miles later 1 wire in a bundle of wires an inch in diameter shorted out and my lockers quit working. .... Took a week to find it.

The BEST 4x4s were built with carburetors and they were bulletproof for life.

 

[Pilat]

"old was bulletproof" = "constant fettling to keep it running so-so"

 

[soflorovers]

It will be an AU bullbar, however I'm sure there will be a way to attain it, via 3rd parties as its a dealer fit item.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Thank you for this. I hadn't seen this rendering until now. MUCH better IMO

 

[EricTyrrell]

New defender is more tough and more capable then the old, does that make the old defender less defender then the new? Please

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Yes, the new Defender, LR3, LR4, Land Cruiser, Ford/GM/Toyota/RAM trucks are all likely to be more durable in most tests. However, that does not make them Defenders. There's obviously more to it, and they missed it.

As far capability, no head-to-head comparisons have been done. No one can demonstrate exactly how they compare in the read world. All we have at the moment are published off-road specifications, and the LR3/4 which it is very similar to and shares most suspension parts (proven by photo evidence). Comparing published data on the 90, the classic Defender's numbers are superior in terms of weight and off-road angles. Ground clearance in the new Defender and LR3/4 is superior. However, it has been demonstrated repeatedly there is a large difference in measured ground clearance and effective body ground clearance. This is partially (other than weight) why the LR3/4 suffer in breakover tests and are prone to getting bogged down in mud and snow. In terms of real-world capability, the LR3/4 are highly capable for a modern SUV, but they're not comparable to the lighter, high-body clearance, body-on-frame vehicles like the classic Defender and Jeep Wrangler. Add a locker to the mix, and they latter pair are untouchable.

 

[EricTyrrell]

I agree. The old one was overtaken in capability in the last couple of decades. It was time they upgraded it to make it Land Rover's most capable again.

The Jeep Wrangler is the classic's only rival in terms of capability. Equip both with identical tires and lockers, and they'll compete head-to-head. No surprise, as both are built upon very similar chassis/suspension designs. As the new Defender is very similar to the LR3/4, which was not even close to a Wrangler killer, I find it highly unlikely it will unseat the current leaders.

 

[EricTyrrell]

In an effort to offer some constructive vision, let's consider how a proper Defender could actually be built. Take the RAM 1500, a modern coil-sprung body-on-frame vehicle, which like the original Series trucks performs actual work, far more any modern fashion "Land Rover" does. Take that 1500, shorten it, re-style the body, and you've got something far closer to what the original Defender was, that still meets all modern requirements.

 

[Pilat]

The Jeep Wrangler is the classic's only rival in terms of capability. Equip both with identical tires and lockers, and they'll compete head-to-head. No surprise, as both are built upon very similar chassis/suspension designs. As the new Defender is very similar to the LR3/4, which was not even close to a Wrangler killer, I find it highly unlikely it will unseat the current leaders.

I disagree. Most modern Land Rovers (range rovers, discos etc.) could run rings around the old Defender off road - and more and more as time progressed during the last couple of decades. But then I'm not talking about modified rock crawlers, as that is like saying a trials bike is better than an MX off road or that one of the hill climbing bikes are better off road than anything else.

 

[EricTyrrell]

I disagree. Most modern Land Rovers (range rovers, discos etc.) could run rings around the old Defender off road - and more and more as time progressed during the last couple of decades. But then I'm not talking about modified rock crawlers, as that is like saying a trials bike is better than an MX off road or that one of the hill climbing bikes are better off road than anything else.

It depends. Those newer vehicles, in high-traction dry terrain, compared to the early non-traction control Defender, were situationally more capable. Add TC and/or a locker, and the Defender is back on top in nearly every scenario, same as the Wrangler. All else equal, it comes down to basics: articulation, body ground clearance, approach, breakover, departure, and weight.

 

[mpinco]

On broken down granite hill climbs LR's traction control is a mid level performer when compared to a 2016 and older Defender with lockers.

 

[Blaise]

But on an off road 4x4 I prefer simplicity. Even my 15 year old Rubicon is too new for me. As soon as you involve electronics with the drive line, problems, gremlins are just a matter of time. 15 years old, 240K miles later 1 wire in a bundle of wires an inch in diameter shorted out and my lockers quit working. .... Took a week to find it.

The BEST 4x4s were built with carburetors and they were bulletproof for life.

If you think carburetor-era vehicles were bulletproof for life, your memory is failing you.

Also, you're seriously faulting a vehicle for having a problem after 240k miles? I think you have unreasonable expectations.

 

[DieselRanger]

On broken down granite hill climbs LR's traction control is a mid level performer when compared to a 2016 and older Defender with lockers.

But a modern Land Rover with lockers plus their traction control - they climb like goats.

Even the Wrangler has traction control now. Has for over a decade.

If you want the ultimate in off-road traction, more articulation than any live axle, superior ground clearance, turns and stops on a dime, can refuel even while driving, range in the thousands of miles, can maneuver through the tightest obstacles, and will get you home in a snowstorm or when passed-out drunk, then you need one of these:



And, if it dies in the mountains in the middle of winter, you can eat it and survive until spring.