New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Pilat]

They were supposed to do both.

Says who? When did LR say that the new Defender would be built using the lowest tech possible to get through regulations? They did that with the old Defender. It didn't sell. And it certainly wasn't the best off road. It was surpassed by technological advancements.

 

[blackangie]

See the Jeep pic I referenced for $50K, which included the diesel option at $4K. That's brand new, US dollar. Then consider the LA show pricing for the D110
110FE (first edition) - $68,650 plus options
110X - $80,900K plus options

Optioned closely the D110 will be close to $80K-$90K. Apples to apples? No because of how manufacturers package options. Plus I can't get a diesel D110 but I do expect that to be another price adder in the range of $2-3K. The wild card? Dealers will negotiate on Jeeps while LR will be firm for the first 3 to 4 years until depreciation rates become established. In addition I expect LR dealers to stock loaded models. Plus Jeeps now all support the infotainment commodity stuff. All manufacturers are virtually the same, QNX based.

Why are you quoting first edition, pricing starts at base, first editions are for those that want pretty much everything, very close to X

110 S model is cheapest in AU and its still way higher specced than any wrangler.

If you think jeeps are good value for you, go buy one, this is the defender section.

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[blackangie]

That’s a verbose way of saying the Range Rover is a Bentley, the Discovery is a Range Rover, and the Defender is dead.

No, actually i didn't type or infer that at all, thats your opinion and your welcome to it
I would say 5k annual sales to the public is dead and landrover resurrected the dead.

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[blackangie]

Says who? When did LR say that the new Defender would be built using the lowest tech possible to get through regulations? They did that with the old Defender. It didn't sell. And it certainly wasn't the best off road. It was surpassed by technological advancements.

Correct infact it couldnt even be sold, in many markets including the US

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[EricTyrrell]

Says who? When did LR say that the new Defender would be built using the lowest tech possible to get through regulations? They did that with the old Defender. It didn't sell. And it certainly wasn't the best off road. It was surpassed by technological advancements.

Not lowest, modern. Modern tech, used in the most simple way possible, and high-tech where it doesn't cause compromise. Make that touch screen as high tech as possible, as long as it isn't needed to operate the vehicle.

The old Defender did sell, until they neglected it. The entire damn company was built from the rampant success of selling the most utilitarian vehicle they could develop. Imagine if Jeep had failed to update the YJ until 2015. They'd have been screwed to, and by their own fault.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Correct infact it couldnt even be sold, in many markets including the US

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Because they failed to update it, not because the world stopped buying hard-core offroad and utilitarian vehicles, or because its identity or philosophy was flawed, in fact quote the opposite. Trucks and Wranglers have never sold so well. Land Rover forgot how to build a truck in its efforts to build hand bags.

 

[blackangie]

Not lowest, modern. Modern tech, used in the most simple way possible, and high-tech where it doesn't cause compromise. Make that touch screen as high tech as possible, as long as it isn't needed to operate the vehicle.

The old Defender did sell, until they neglected it. The entire damn company was built from the rampant success of selling the most utilitarian vehicle they could develop. Imagine if Jeep had failed to update the YJ until 2015. They'd have been screwed to, and by their own fault.

Fair points

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[blackangie]

Because they failed to update it, not because the world stopped buying hard-core offroad and utilitarian vehicles, or because its identity or philosophy was flawed, in fact quote the opposite. Trucks and Wranglers have never sold so well. Land Rover forgot how to build a truck in its efforts to build hand bags.

Not true based on what ive seen of both the D3, D4, D5 and new defender.

All incredible vehicles, new defender takes it to a whole new level again fact wise

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[Pilat]

Not lowest, modern. Modern tech, used in the most simple way possible, and high-tech where it doesn't cause compromise. Make that touch screen as high tech as possible, as long as it isn't needed to operate the vehicle.

The old Defender did sell, until they neglected it. The entire damn company was built from the rampant success of selling the most utilitarian vehicle they could develop. Imagine if Jeep had failed to update the YJ until 2015. They'd have been screwed to, and by their own fault.

So you're only okay with modern tech where it doesn't actually improve it's capabilites. Puritanism of the worst kind. Ditch progress and improvements and only use modern technology and solutions to stuff that doesn't improve the actual driving - the main purpose of a vehicle like this.
How about that Wrangler? How much can it tow? How much can it carry? How well does it behave at anything other than crawling speeds+

 

[blackangie]

So you're only okay with modern tech where it doesn't actually improve it's capabilites. Puritanism of the worst kind. Ditch progress and improvements and only use modern technology and solutions to stuff that doesn't improve the actual driving - the main purpose of a vehicle like this.
How about that Wrangler? How much can it tow? How much can it carry? How well does it behave at anything other than crawling speeds+

Good points on the wrangler, I would add how reliable is it and how safe does it keep its occupants being 1 star safety rated.

People that don't care about these facts are not the target market of the new defender.

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[Pilat]

I knew it was unsafe, but 1 star! Ha, ha! Yeah, that almost makes someone a Darwin Award nominee when signing the contract.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Not true based on what ive seen of both the D3, D4, D5 and new defender.

All incredible vehicles, new defender takes it to a whole new level again fact wise

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I owned an LR3, so I want to agree, but I also sold it after getting tired of dealing with it. When I sold it, only women were interested. Around here, anyone who works with their hands for a living, or in industry, forresty, etc drive trucks, and I don't mean the Ridgeline kind. To this day, the only Land Rovers around here are owned by women and wanna-be gangbangers.

 

[Pilat]

I owned an LR3, so I want to agree, but I also sold it after getting tired of dealing with it. When I sold it, only women were interested. Around here, anyone who works with their hands for a living, or in industry, forresty, etc drive trucks, and I don't mean the Ridgeline kind. To this day, the only Land Rovers around here are owned by women and wanna-be gangbangers.

How many women drive Wranglers? I think you will find a whole lot of Wrangler drivers are women.

Around here,the only G-Wagon drivers I see (loads of them around here) are all women too. They park where they please while do their shopping or whatever it is they do when they "just pop in".

Hell, I bet you will find that a lot of women also adore the old Defender.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Good points on the wrangler, I would add how reliable is it and how safe does it keep its occupants being 1 star safety rated.

Yet it sells better than ever and fuels the largest 4x4 community by far. Things LR could aspire to. What is happening to the community in particular right now is sad.

People that don't care about these facts are not the target market of the new defender.

That is exactly the Defender Demographic. People have always sacrificed reliability and safety for capability, simplicity, and utility. You cannot be the best without compromise. That is the Defender. You don't see people who want or need a SuperDuty buying Volvos just because they're more safe or ride better.

 

[Pilat]

Yet it sells better than ever and fuels the largest 4x4 community by far. Things LR could aspire to. What is happening to the community in particular right now is sad.



That is exactly the Defender Demographic.

No it wasn't. If it was, the old Defender wouldn't have sold so poorly.