New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[DieselRanger]

Indeed,and also in the broken bones and internal injuries department...



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..And that's only if the frame welds hold together. https://moparinsiders.com/nhtsa-opens-investigation-on-wrangler-jls-questionable-welds/

I love Jeep's statement in response to the 2019 Euro NCAP's one-star rating: "...the Jeep Wrangler is engineered to deliver superior performance and unique driving experiences under the most demanding conditions. Testing protocols that apply exclusively to urban scenarios may not align with such a vehicle." In other words, "Sorry, not sorry - the testing is irrelevant and an annoyance. Therefore, we aimed for the lowest possible bar to meet and we successfully achieved it with zero wasted effort." C's get degrees, as it were.

 

[naks]

Yet you don't appreciate that the JL, and others, are far safer than an old Defender, while still being honest successors. It's possible to achieve modernity, simplicity, and relative safety, without completely abandoning everything but a name.

'Far safer' is probably a tad simplistic and optimistic IMHO.

So in a Defender you die, while in a Wrangler you lose a limb or two.

Thanks, but I would far prefer to walk away with no or minimal injuries.

In this part of the world, big animals on roads is fairly common - the other day one side of the National highway just outside Cape Town was closed because of a wandering herd of cows. In the rural areas, well, just Google 'kudu accidents'...

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[EricTyrrell]

"...the Jeep Wrangler is engineered to deliver superior performance and unique driving experiences under the most demanding conditions. Testing protocols that apply exclusively to urban scenarios may not align with such a vehicle."

You must understand that every product is a compromise on a spectrum of intended use. Compromise in one area allows strength in another. Do you not see the folly in expecting a vehicle to excel in all facets? Expecting a Wrangler to perform well in these tests is like expecting a Civic to perform well on the Ike gauntlet.

 

[EricTyrrell]

'Far safer' is probably a tad simplistic and optimistic IMHO.

So in a Defender you die, while in a Wrangler you lose a limb or two.

Thanks, but I would far prefer to walk away with no or minimal injuries.

In this part of the world, big animals on roads is fairly common - the other day one side of the National highway just outside Cape Town was closed because of a wandering herd of cows. In the rural areas, well, just Google 'kudu accidents'...

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Compare the safety features and energy absorption engineering. Night and day. It's not a Volvo, but a Volvo isn't an off-roader. Again, Toyota added several safety features to the 70 series, achieving 5-star ANCAP rating, without it becoming a fashion Land Cruiser. How do you reconcile that?

 

[nickw]

I already highlighted what is known, and what is uncertain. Try to keep up. Again, my primary concern is the merit of the vehicle itself.

Unfortunately you can't disconnect ability to repair and the supporting supply chain with a vehicles 'merit' as an expedition platform....

 

[DorB]

Relative to later vehicles, yes. I still maintain that the Series trucks had relatively (of the time) impressive flex and payload, however without any citable data source other than experience, I'll agree to disagree.

So that’s your method?
You post something wrong, get corrected, so you add different criteria to your previous post?
What’s next?
Limiting the comparison to only specific vehicle from a specific year model?

 

[EricTyrrell]

Unfortunately you can't disconnect ability to repair and the supporting supply chain with a vehicles 'merit' as an expedition platform....

I don't know about you, but I'm five hours from a LR dealer already, and when out in the bush, no dealership has ever been of any help. If that keeps warranty concerned soccer moms from turning an INEOS into another Chelsea tractor, then so be it. We'll see what they do though.

 

[EricTyrrell]

so you add different criteria to your previous post?

Relative to the competition at the time, they were impressive.

 

[TexasTJ]

Do you carry UV lotion in your purse too?

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Mark smiths Pan America trip was bad A.

 

[Carson G]

Looks are just the beginning of the disaster, but let's focus on that rear, because who doesn't?

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Also, FFS was it so hard to give it round lights? I'd expect no less of dandy McGovern. The next iteration, if there is one, will just completely give up and mirror an Evoque.

I mean the OG Defender has had both square and round taillights.

 

[JeepColorado]

Each of the Namibia expedition Defenders carried TWO IDENTICAL SPARES, you mook. They were on factory tires.

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I thought I had read an article that said they wore larger than factory- my bad- honestly doesn't change anything about my overall point. The Jeep is designed from the factory to accept larger tires- even figuring things like having an adjustable tire carrier- whereas the Defender isn't. The Jeep is designed with off-roading at it's core- it's primary function. Jeep designers craft the design language and the engineers build something as routine as a brake light post on a tire carrier with the primary function being off-road function. In the LR I see something else. I see the design language of compromise- of style over substance- of stick on fake diamond plating on the hood, because it should look like it's functional- it doesn't really matter that it is. That's the logic I see in the LR. We have different opinions about a vehicle- not sure why you are deriding my intelligence.

 

[DorB]

Rob Atkins - chief engineer, vehicle engineeringMy team and I work on all of our SUV models: the Defender was just one of them,

End of discussion.
Dun deal.

The last person, please turn the lights off.

 

[krick3tt]

Can this be ended? It has gone on long enough and his taking up space on a topic that will never be decided.

 

[DorB]

Can this be ended? It has gone on long enough and his taking up space on a topic that will never be decided.

LR Defender chief engineer titled it as an SUV, not the original Defender goals, what more can be said?

 

[nickw]

I thought I had read an article that said they wore larger than factory- my bad- honestly doesn't change anything about my overall point. The Jeep is designed from the factory to accept larger tires- even figuring things like having an adjustable tire carrier- whereas the Defender isn't. The Jeep is designed with off-roading at it's core- it's primary function. Jeep designers craft the design language and the engineers build something as routine as a brake light post on a tire carrier with the primary function being off-road function. In the LR I see something else. I see the design language of compromise- of style over substance- of stick on fake diamond plating on the hood, because it should look like it's functional- it doesn't really matter that it is. That's the logic I see in the LR. We have different opinions about a vehicle- not sure why you are deriding my intelligence.

Well you did use completely wrong info as a counter example....theres that...