New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[nickw]

LR Defender chief engineer titled it as an SUV, not the original Defender goals, what more can be said?

End of discussion.
Dun deal.

The last person, please turn the lights off.

So does Toyota with their Landcruiser....mind....blown

N

 

[Victory_Overland]

Yet you don't appreciate that the JL, and others, are far safer than an old Defender, while still being honest successors. It's possible to achieve modernity, simplicity, and relative safety, without completely abandoning everything but a name.

And for Jeep, their innovation has proven they still can't get or progress above a marginal safety level by "any" year standards. The vast majority of Jeeps are NOT used in any fashion to what you claim they are ONLY doing. So by definition, Jeep is selling for profit knowing the vast majority of their market share is NOT going to off-road them and should be liable for selling 75% of their Jeeps to those who will drive them on the road in which they are rated as below average and NOT safe to modern and acceptable standard.

Coming from someone who lost a dear friend in a black ice rollover on the east coast in a MODERN JK; single vehicle accident, dry pavement to black ice to dry pavement to rollover and dead. Sell your BS somewhere else man; its ridiculous how narrow minded you are!

Oh, and 50 Raptors.......you're a blind man bro; I passed 50 of them on my way back from San Bernardino and it's a legit pre-runner not just a fashion statement. You're saying the F150 a while back was the basis of innovation and now you are busting on the most highly capable model.....I didn't say practical and your argument has never been practical in any sense. You change your story more than a Hooker changes panties bro!

Ford sells a killing of King Ranch trim a few states east of here; you may not see many here but they sell a ton to a MARKET that wants them like a NASCAR model on the East Coast for a Truck or Car; it's market and where to sell. Raptors sell a ton here and many people use them for their intent just like many Jeeps are; not all but many. Every time you put your thoughts on this post; you remind the peeps on this forum how little you know about anything!

Friendly reminder to the forum; 7-8 posts later, @EricTyrrell still can't produce a photo of any vehicle he drives or has done anything with to live up to his self-absorbed image.

I thought I had read an article that said they wore larger than factory- my bad- honestly doesn't change anything about my overall point. The Jeep is designed from the factory to accept larger tires- even figuring things like having an adjustable tire carrier- whereas the Defender isn't. The Jeep is designed with off-roading at it's core- it's primary function. Jeep designers craft the design language and the engineers build something as routine as a brake light post on a tire carrier with the primary function being off-road function. In the LR I see something else. I see the design language of compromise- of style over substance- of stick on fake diamond plating on the hood, because it should look like it's functional- it doesn't really matter that it is. That's the logic I see in the LR. We have different opinions about a vehicle- not sure why you are deriding my intelligence.

You realize the tire cover is an OPTION right and you could hand a 37" on it if you wanted to!?!?!?! Always spitting FaceBook knowledge and never facts! Jeep sells to a market share they know are going to completely modify regardless of use so they could wrap cat in a. Jeep package and anyone with a bit of ingenuity and ton of money can make it a true Rubicon wagon and not just a brand name. About 20 pages ago you guys are talking about how many options there are for Jeeps and endless building around increased performance and aftermarket to now saying the Jeep is the best out of the box and don't need any modification and it's just plain wrong. Stock to Stock, the vast majority of sales are Wrangler Sport and a fraction of Rubicons; all of which get heavily modified and that is awesome. You and @EricTyrrell can't get out of your own arguments and just throw stuff out there to bust on JLR with almost zero research or facts.

 

[DieselRanger]

You must understand that every product is a compromise on a spectrum of intended use. Compromise in one area allows strength in another. Do you not see the folly in expecting a vehicle to excel in all facets? Expecting a Wrangler to perform well in these tests is like expecting a Civic to perform well on the Ike gauntlet.

But the Defender does exactly that - it excels on the road as well as off, and will keep you safer than a Wrangler in the process, even if after an additional $10,000+ in modifications a Wrangler can go places a Defender won't.

Yeah, I'll take the Defender, thanks.

 

[DorB]

So does Toyota with their Landcruiser....mind....blown

N

No..
They still have the 70’..

 

[EricTyrrell]

And for Jeep, their innovation has proven they still can't get or progress above a marginal safety level by "any" year standards.

Their focus of the model is not safety, and that's fine. Buy a Volvo.

The vast majority of Jeeps are NOT used in any fashion to what you claim they are ONLY doing.

Quote me.

So by definition, Jeep is selling for profit knowing the vast majority of their market share is NOT going to off-road them and should be liable for selling 75% of their Jeeps to those who will drive them on the road in which they are rated as below average and NOT safe to modern and acceptable standard.

If you buy a classic vehicle, motorcycle, a car with low IIHS scores, etc, you assume the risk. Don't like it? Buy something else.

I passed 50 of them on my way back from San Bernardino

You didn't ask me how many you passed on the way home. Let's see what you actually asked..

Do you have any idea at all how many of those things are being used as bone stock legit off-road Pre-Runners by legit pro and amateur race teams?

You're saying the F150 a while back was the basis of innovation and now you are busting on the most highly capable model.....

I did not. Quote me. I said I own one. If I said anything more, I'd say it's practical, modern without excessive complication, and (minus the fat cowboy Platinum trim levels) is conservative in its styling. Unless one lives and uses it in very specific geographic regions, the Raptor is objectively worse than a standard model. In 99% of cases, it is simply the F150's Brotastic trim level.

 

[EricTyrrell]

But the Defender does exactly that - it excels on the road as well as off, and will keep you safer than a Wrangler in the process, even if after an additional $10,000+ in modifications a Wrangler can go places a Defender won't.

Yeah, I'll take the Defender, thanks.

A Wrangler is not for you. That's fine. However, one does not have to be uniquely discerning to see that the Wrangler offers features found in few vehicles. There is always compromise. The luxury Defender appears to have potential as an overlanding platform, but is not a one size fits all solution, nor is it proven. Its list of compromises have been highlighted several times, and I have little interest in reiterating them.

 

[EricTyrrell]

FTFY

An expansion? Agriculture, conversions, industry, military, NGO, municipal, off-roaders; all gone for good. No, the market for this one is people who know who Q-Tip is and buy REI vacations. Go spend some time on Defender forums to see what the existing markets think of it.

 

[DieselRanger]

An expansion? Military, agriculture, NGO, municipal, off-roaders; all gone for good. No, the market for this one is people who know who Q-Tip is and buy REI vacations. Go spend some time on Defender forums to see what the existing markets think of it.

Your examples are all variations on the same thing - off-roaders. Land Rover never sold commercial versions of any vehicle in the US; they still sell commercial versions of the new Discovery in the UK, and showed a commercial version of the Defender at its debut last fall, and are offering them for sale in the UK also. Soft-skinned military vehicles are increasingly rare thanks to our friends in dusty places. Speaking of dusty places, the first Defenders being delivered in the UAE are already being 'Grammed in the desert. And you have to keep being told they haven't sold an "agricultural" variant since the very first one, but that's not surprising because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Personally, I don't care what existing Defender drivers think of it - nor do I listen to other people telling me what I should think of it. I don't care that Land Rover sponsored a music festival with a Gen-X rapper and a couple artists some Millennials have heard of before they became popular. They're just marketing. I didn't care what previous Discovery owners thought about the new one - I made my own choice and bought one. And my own experience seems to indicate that I made a good choice for me - my 2017 D5 has been rock-solid reliable for 35,000+ miles and it goes everywhere I want to go with it in supreme comfort at speed with as much stuff as I want to put in it, plus my family, who enjoy it immensely also; and it's a nice vehicle to drive when we get dressed up and go out to dinner. I don't care what other Jeep owners think about their Wranglers - my research and experience with them indicates they're uncomfortable, unreliable, poorly-built, unsafe pieces of garbage - but they are good off-road in the right conditions. Definitely not right for me. You are clearly very concerned about what others think and so you shouldn't buy any Land Rovers. Stick to Toyota. Everyone likes Yota, and no one will think less of you for owning one.

Got it, you don't like the Defender because of appearances. Don't blame Land Rover, blame consumers. The 500 people each year who bought the last generation and the 15 or so people in each on these kinds of forums who think they would have liked an updated version of the old one but who have never actually seen one outside of a Cars and Coffee, much less ridden in or even driven one are not enough to justify building the one they wanted to see - it wasn't enough to keep it on sale in the US, wasn't enough to keep it on sale anywhere else in the world, and a new one wouldn't have worked financially either. So Land Rover is going where the money is while maintaining a market discriminator as a technologically superior all-terrain vehicle in the process. You can ignore the economics of it if you like but it just makes you look willfully ignorant of the primary reason why you can't get what you want.

 

[Carson G]

The luxury Defender appears to have potential as an overlanding platform, but is not a one size fits all solution, nor is it proven.

I agree especially if we’re talking about the US market. If you want proven reliability you could go with a 200 Land Cruiser if you want more off road capability and modifiability then you go with the Jeep Wrangler or if you want a lot of payload and solid off road capability you go with the Defender. When the Bronco comes out we’ll see where it stands. The new Defender is not going after quite the same market as the old one Land Rover has said this themselves they’re going after the overland market primarily not necessarily the government/industrial market although I’m sure some will be used in that capacity just like Discos are. In some ways that decision is a blessing and a curse. Everything is a compromise. Frankly here in the US a chassis cab Defender wouldn’t sell that well I’d love to have one but that doesn’t mean there is a big enough market to support it. Frankly if you wanted one bad enough I’m sure the aftermarket could build one it’s completely doable. I really wish Toyota would bring the 70 series to the US though I’d probably buy that over any Jeep or Defender the 200 just doesn’t do it for me.

 

[nickw]

No..
They still have the 70’..

"SUV" is common vernacular for all vehicles like the new Defender, including the 70 series...what was your point again?

 

[Corgi_express]

Fixating on the word SUV shows just how sad and pathetically desperate these trolls are, grasping at straws. Jeep calls the Wrangler an SUV. The Wrangler won SUV of the year in 2019. Guess it's not a Real Offroader, then, because a stupid little acronym is more important than... you know... how it drives off road.

 

[nickw]

An expansion? Agriculture, conversions, industry, military, NGO, municipal, off-roaders; all gone for good. No, the market for this one is people who know who Q-Tip is and buy REI vacations. Go spend some time on Defender forums to see what the existing markets think of it.

Who cares, again, using the LC200 as litmus test, it had the same naysayers....many of which are probably driving modded 200's now....

 

[nickw]

Fixating on the word SUV shows just how sad and pathetically desperate these trolls are, grasping at straws. Jeep calls the Wrangler an SUV. The Wrangler won SUV of the year in 2019. Guess it's not a Real Offroader, then, because a stupid little acronym is more important than... you know... how it drives off road.

Great point:



I guess @Doron is disproving @EricTyrrell and @JeepColorado entire point here....who was turning out the lights again?

 

[Carson G]

Found something kinda disappointing today on the new Defender. Those auxiliary radiators that the D5 has are on the new Defender as well in the exact same spot. That’ll make it a pain to fit a aftermarket winch bumper. Not impossible but definitely a pain. Other than that it looks pretty straight forward to install one.

 

[mpinco]

Never did see a Lucky8LLC D5 front bumper. Only a winch tray. I recall the wing radiators were a problem but maybe they solved that? Maybe not.