New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Highlander]

I want to add one more thing, a sort off drawing a parallel, about the way I see the design.
It should be evolutionary, ones the model is established, not revolutionary.

I am interested in dogs, specifically in bird dogs.
When they bred the GWP, one of the best known breed in the upland, in early 20th century in Germany they set up the rules and requirements for selection and breeding. Since that day those rules and requirements have not changed (almost). However, the modern GWP is a different dog what it once was in the begging. On the other hand the GWP has remind true to its origin and the breeding / hunting philosophy. It is better today because of what it was yesterday.

This is the way I see the design. The is what Jeep is doing. the MB (G class) is doing it, RAM is doing it and now Ford has (re)joined the club.
What happened with LR? well they gave as a different car. (A very good one on it own way)

We have been asking for Gary Cooper or Sean Connery... and Mr. McGovern gave us Owen Jones (a jurno at the Guardian).

 

[mpinco]

Land Rover design director Gerry McGovern’s Warwickshire home is a dazzling slice of LA modernism

Land Rover design director Gerry McGovern’s Warwickshire home is a dazzling slice of LA modernism

Take a private tour through Land Rover design director Gerry McGovern’s countryside Warwickshire home, informed by LA modernism and midcentury furniture design.

www.wallpaper.com

"........A key component of the brief was to showcase McGovern’s expansive collection of contemporary furniture, gathered up from around the world and paired with an impressive array of art......."

 

[mpinco]

McGovern is not an engineer and I suspect he would be insulted to be called one. He is an 'architect'.

 

[JeepColorado]

Meanwhile, this poor guy got his Defender back and it still isn't fixed

 

[JeepColorado]

Nobody wants to interview an engineer, and engineers aren't comfortable talking in public, but I suspect we would hear the complementary position if someone did ask Nick Roger's for his perspective on the Defender.

Who cares if Gerry isn't an off roader? He highlights the inevitable compromise between design and engineering.

Interesting perspectives from Nick Rogers and other's who designed the Defender

Defender heroes: the people behind Land Rover's definitive 4x4 | Autocar

What does it take to make a car as crucial as the 2020 Defender? We meet five people who know

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[DieselRanger]

LOL and I thought this thread was full of rage and hate.

Ford's 2021 Bronco unveiling is already causing a rift and sparking outrage among Jeep Wrangler fans online

A mix of memes and angst over Ford's new Bronco is filling forums dedicated to fans of the Jeep Wrangler, foreshadowing the off-road battle to come.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[DieselRanger]

McGovern is not an engineer and I suspect he would be insulted to be called one. He is an 'architect'.

Exactly my point.

 

[JeepColorado]

LOL and I thought this thread was full of rage and hate.

Ford's 2021 Bronco unveiling is already causing a rift and sparking outrage among Jeep Wrangler fans online

A mix of memes and angst over Ford's new Bronco is filling forums dedicated to fans of the Jeep Wrangler, foreshadowing the off-road battle to come.

www.businessinsider.com

Well Diesel, I posted that Defender Hero's article out of respect for you and the fun, no angry, no spirited, I mean great conversation we've had over almost 200 pages!

That article you posted is so true- the JLWranglerForum is practically a Bronco forum these days with how obsessed it's become. The Bronco threads have even been more popular than the Hemi Rubicon threads. These are VERY good times to be an enthusiasts!

I can't wait to see what the competition does to Jeep and back to Ford- maybe a Hemi Wrangler will coax a Coyote 5.0 out of Ford? Maybe the entire competition will create an SVX Defender!!!!

 

[DieselRanger]

I want to add one more thing, a sort off drawing a parallel, about the way I see the design.
It should be evolutionary, ones the model is established, not revolutionary.

I am interested in dogs, specifically in bird dogs.
When they bred the GWP, one of the best known breed in the upland, in early 20th century in Germany they set up the rules and requirements for selection and breeding. Since that day those rules and requirements have not changed (almost). However, the modern GWP is a different dog what it once was in the begging. On the other hand the GWP has remind true to its origin and the breeding / hunting philosophy. It is better today because of what it was yesterday.

This is the way I see the design. The is what Jeep is doing. the MB (G class) is doing it, RAM is doing it and now Ford has (re)joined the club.
What happened with LR? well they gave as a different car. (A very good one on it own way)

We have been asking for Gary Cooper or Sean Connery... and Mr. McGovern gave us Owen Jones (a jurno at the Guardian).

What happened was LR did some genetic engineering, and went from a medieval courser to a Viszla overnight. They didn't have the resources to gradually evolve it while they focused on the volume sellers. You can look at the Range Rover and no one would say the current one isn't true to and a clear evolution of the original.

Criticize 1997 Land Rover for not evolving the Defender, but 2020 Land Rover corrected that oversight. Ironically, had they not gone off and done the Evoque, they would be just another brand in the dustbin of history right now.

 

[DieselRanger]

Well Diesel, I posted that Defender Hero's article out of respect for you and the fun, no angry, no spirited, I mean great conversation we've had over almost 200 pages!

That article you posted is so true- the JLWranglerForum is practically a Bronco forum these days with how obsessed it's become. The Bronco threads have even been more popular than the Hemi Rubicon threads. These are VERY good times to be an enthusiasts!

I can't wait to see what the competition does to Jeep and back to Ford- maybe a Hemi Wrangler will coax a Coyote 5.0 out of Ford? Maybe the entire competition will create an SVX Defender!!!!

Yeah, this has been all good fun for the most part.

 

[mpinco]

.......

Criticize 1997 Land Rover for not evolving the Defender, but 2020 Land Rover corrected that oversight. Ironically, had they not gone off and done the Evoque, they would be just another brand in the dustbin of history right now.

I suspect the CFO of JLR might have a different take on that outcome as they stare $8B in debt and stagnant sales in the face. While Evoque, a fashion statement, has sold well the question on the table is did that move to 'fashion' distract JLR from its core value proposition/s on Defender, Discovery and XJ. Did 'fashion' and that defocus create the financial mess that has some wondering if JLR will exist. They are clearly headed for restructuring, redundancies and a new CEO as Tata looks for partners.

Imagine if Jeep has gone down the fashion path. Or, just look at today's Blazer for a statement on fashion and 'modernist' interpretation of the K5.

 

[REDROVER]

how’s the new Land Rover ( AKA) Kia Soul sells going ? Have they Even sold any?
bad sign when even in LA u can’t see one driving around.

 

[mpinco]

We've seen this before with the British car industry ........ Fashion. Recall the Triumph TR7, "The Shape of Things to Come". While it sold well volume wise, many say Triumph lost it way with the TR7 as they walked away from their identity.

How is Triumph Motor Company today?

 

[T-Willy]

Meanwhile, this poor guy got his Defender back and it still isn't fixed

This sort of glitchy tech is precisely what I don't want on a touring vehicle. It is the opposite of simplicity; needless, glitchy expense.

 

[JeepColorado]

I suspect the CFO of JLR might have a different take on that outcome as they stare $8B in debt and stagnant sales in the face. While Evoque, a fashion statement, has sold well the question on the table is did that move to 'fashion' distract JLR from its core value proposition/s on Defender, Discovery and XJ. Did 'fashion' and that defocus create the financial mess that has some wondering if JLR will exist. They are clearly headed for restructuring, redundancies and a new CEO as Tata looks for partners.

Imagine if Jeep has gone down the fashion path. Or, just look at today's Blazer for a statement on fashion and 'modernist' interpretation of the K5.

It's so easy for companies as they grow to get distracted. Coca-Cola at one time thought, hey, our drinks are in movie theaters, we should buy movie theaters- it was a business disaster. To grow and explore and venture out is one thing- to walk away from the very thing that made you successful in the first place--- you know, that distracting "established visual DNA" and "Engineering brand" that Gerry felt should be left behind and checked with his modern design language- is another. It's never gone well for companies.

There is such an incredible market in the US and across the World for Purpose-Built-Heritage-Leaning Designed 4x4s and they are licenses to print money- the modern furniture that Gerry is creating is going away from those purchasers to a more narrow market.