New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[EricTyrrell]

This was a fun one.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Sweet profile pic!

All the guys on my geo survey team say it juxtaposes my masculinity. I'm glad they finally noticed!

 

[givemethewillys]

How is that telling? What does she do with her LR3? Does she intend to use the Volvo in the same way as the Defender was designed?

If not, it's not telling for me at all. If all I wanted was a high-riding vehicle with lots of cargo capacity and superb luxury with the best seats in all of the automotive universe to drive around town and haul the kids and their stuff, I'd pick a Volvo too.

In fact, in about 2 years when the wife's lease is up on her Mazda we will be looking very hard at the Polestar 2, which has everything but the "lots of cargo capacity".

I think your statement reinforces what I'm saying. The defender doesn't even appeal to the market that they are ********** dab in the middle of, the well-off soccer mom that wants a "go anywhere, even if the plow doesn't come through the neighborhood" suv. Like you stated, the Volvo does it better.

If JLR really wanted to appeal to the overlander or off-road crowd, they wouldn't have thrown so many gee-wizz gimmick items into the car. It's been said for 200+ pages now: simple, reliable, rugged. That's what people wanted in the defender. That's what I was hoping for, but was disappointed.

C'mon 300 pages

 

[JeepColorado]

This was a fun one.

View attachment 604564

Give Me 2 Minutes-

- How can anyone who actually ventures off the beaten path watch minute 7:40-9:40 of this video and think- wow, I can't wait to lay down $70K+ for this thing?

TC loses to lockers every time and I was actually impressed by the TC in my wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2, but this system seems particularly bad. Would love to hear some responses that aren't already beat to death in the 1st 200 pages so we can exclude the following sentiments-

@Blaise "Yeah, but it rides so smooth to the trail"

@Corgi_express "You disagree with me so you must be a troll"

 

[Carson G]

Give Me 2 Minutes-

- How can anyone who actually ventures off the beaten path watch minute 7:40-9:40 of this video and think- wow, I can't wait to lay down $70K+ for this thing?

TC loses to lockers every time and I was actually impressed by the TC in my wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2, but this system seems particularly bad. Would love to hear some responses that aren't already beat to death in the 1st 200 pages so we can exclude the following sentiments-

@Blaise "Yeah, but it rides so smooth to the trail"

@Corgi_express "You disagree with me so you must be a troll"

Something must be setup wrong because my open diff LR3 doesn’t have that much wheel spin. Every D5 I’ve ever seen off road barely spin the wheels a quarter turn before it has figured it out. Should ask Steve what the traction control settings were.

 

[JeepColorado]

Something must be setup wrong because my open diff LR3 doesn’t have that much wheel spin. Every D5 I’ve ever seen off road barely spin the wheels a quarter turn before it has figured it out. Should ask Steve what the traction control settings were.

I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion- that seems really bad. My wife's GC was better than that.

 

[Blaise]

@Blaise "Yeah, but it rides so smooth to the trail"

Hey man, I'm gonna order one with the rear locker. There's a reason I haven't had an open rear diff in several vehicles now. You're 100% correct that lockers > TC. But the TC + rear locker is PLENTY for me It's a huge upgrade over my Xterra which had the e-diff and no TC.

That being said, this is still super weird. I don't trust TFL simply for using a lift-rod truck, but for all we know they don't even know how to set the TC correctly. My experience has also been that within 1/2 wheel turn the rear locker has engaged and the front TC does it's thing.

Also, again, remember, these guys are on lift rods which have destroyed the articulation on the truck. For a third time, the truck is TOPPED THE F OUT. Notice how the wheels don't tuck at all.

Never for a second claiming the Defender will outperform a Rubicon on a rocky trail. Never have and never will. But my LR3 will walk that obstacle no problem which makes this video incredibly annoying

Edit: I did give you 2 minutes and watched that atrocity. How many times do you bash your control arm on a rock before you try a different line? Wooooooooooooowww there's a reason I don't watch these.

 

[Corgi_express]

It's not the disagreement that makes one a troll - it is the trolling.

I am talking about stuff like focusing on rock crawling as the be-all end-all of off road driving even after two hundred freaking pages of people providing example after example of other things about the Defender that they find appealing, or like cherry picking examples of the Defender struggling, while ignoring stuff like it walking up Hell's Gate when driven by someone who knows what they are doing.

This stuff is Troll 101. Say inflammatory stuff to draw reactions, and completely ignore the existence of any comment that in any way doesn't fit your narrow minded and absurd argument.




Screw 300 pages, this thread should be locked and a handful of people banned from posting in the Land Rover forums. It's getting more and more absurd and ridiculous, and devolving to the point of insulting those who purchased these vehicles. There are hundreds of rock crawling forums for insecure dudebros who have to one up each other with toxic ******** waving. This is a forum for overlanding, not hold-my-beer rednecking. Move on, get a life, and let people enjoy things.

 

[mpinco]

- Lift rods expose IS shortcomings

- Video of TC struggling on broken down granite/marbles is no different than the DII demo I witnessed almost 20 years ago. Little new here. it's not "rock crawling". It's an everyday trail in Colorado.

 

[DieselRanger]

I think your statement reinforces what I'm saying. The defender doesn't even appeal to the market that they are ********** dab in the middle of, the well-off soccer mom that wants a "go anywhere, even if the plow doesn't come through the neighborhood" suv. Like you stated, the Volvo does it better.

If JLR really wanted to appeal to the overlander or off-road crowd, they wouldn't have thrown so many gee-wizz gimmick items into the car. It's been said for 200+ pages now: simple, reliable, rugged. That's what people wanted in the defender. That's what I was hoping for, but was disappointed.

C'mon 300 pages

It's been said for 200+ pages now that the pure overland or offroad crowd is only a few hundred to a few thousand people in the US, and far smaller in other parts of the world. If they only targeted that crowd, Land Rover would be out of business. Because that's who bought the Old Defender when it was on sale here, and then at only a few hundred per year.

JLR has been quite public in their need to market a global vehicle that will sell in volume but stays true to the brand's image as a technical innovator in off road capability. That's what the New Defender is. You can't deny after seeing the numerous videos that show up weekly now that the Defender isn't exactly what they said it would be - supremely capable off road. And it's selling very well here in Colorado.

And you're about to recycle the "bu-bu-but Jeep 200,000 per year," and then I'll repeat that very few people who buy any 4x4 go offroad on anything more challenging than a gravel road, yes, even here in Colorado, where Jeeps are, on average, just squared off convertibles with big tires. If they made this, it would probably sell better than a jeep:

EDIT: sorry, could have easily extended this thread a couple more posts if I couldn't see the future so clearly after 200+ pages.

 

[DieselRanger]

Something must be setup wrong because my open diff LR3 doesn’t have that much wheel spin. Every D5 I’ve ever seen off road barely spin the wheels a quarter turn before it has figured it out. Should ask Steve what the traction control settings were.

I would say, ask Steve how many clicks he wanted to get for driving the Defender poorly. Clearly he set it for max wheelspin and loose diff locking behavior. The earlier "preview" video they posted was far more accurate in its performance, you know the one where the Gladiator with its lockers got stuck on the rock that the Defender walked over?

 

[JeepColorado]

I would say, ask Steve how many clicks he wanted to get for driving the Defender poorly. Clearly he set it for max wheelspin and loose diff locking behavior. The earlier "preview" video they posted was far more accurate in its performance, you know the one where the Gladiator with its lockers got stuck on the rock that the Defender walked over?

So, I reached out to TFL- below is their response-

"Thanks for the note. We used the custom settings. I know the video was edited to look like the vehicle was in mud and rut mode, but it wasn't. Steve has wheeled it before up a much tougher trail and found out that allowing some wheel spin was the best way to get it up and over difficult obstacles. The New Defender has a custom mode that allows the driver to refine some of the terrain management settings like wheel spin....so that's what we did. I hope this helps.

FYI: We'll be publishing an Ike Gauntlet towing video with the Defender on Wednesday to our truck channel in case anyone is thinking of towing with it.

Thanks for watching.

Cheers,
Roman Mica
Publisher/Executive Producer"

 

[soflorovers]

It’s bigger than a LR4. ?‍♂️ It’s taller, longer, and wider. The core differences is in off road capability and load capacities as well as interior design. There are also some key differences mechanically like stronger suspension bushings and larger diameter shocks. As well as the strongest axle shafts Land Rover has ever used. Not to mention the Defender has ip67 rated electronics inside and out. Oh and the fact it can fit 18” wheels and 35’s. But yeah it’s just a LR4.
Just like a Classic Defender is a RRC and a D1.

Curious to see if there's a way to make those axles work on an LR3 ?

 

[soflorovers]

How is that telling? What does she do with her LR3? Does she intend to use the Volvo in the same way as the Defender was designed?

If not, it's not telling for me at all. If all I wanted was a high-riding vehicle with lots of cargo capacity and superb luxury with the best seats in all of the automotive universe to drive around town and haul the kids and their stuff, I'd pick a Volvo too.

In fact, in about 2 years when the wife's lease is up on her Mazda we will be looking very hard at the Polestar 2, which has everything but the "lots of cargo capacity".

All that tells me is that their LR3 was never used as intended and that the New Defender wasn't aesthetically pleasing for them. Awesome. Frankly, I don't mind that they didn't get a new Defender because that would be one more on the road that people would be calling a Kia Soul because it never leaves the pavement. Win-win.

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

I'm going to make an unpopular decision to lock this thread for a few days. This particular thread has lead to more reported posts than any posts I can remember in 10 years of administering these forums. To be honest, these forums were developed to be the positive aspects of Overlanding. There is a spirit of awe and inspiration. To have a thread that is labeled "Rage/Hate" (even if in jest) seems to accomplish bringing out, well, "rage and hate."

I'm going to lock this for a few days and let Scott review some of the participation and then decide if we leave it locked or not. Additionally, we've identified several members who are becoming repeat offenders (you know who you are). Please adjust your attitude.

Thanks
DJ