New JKU Expedition build ?'s

[Jeep or Tacoma]

ome

Go with the ome lift and decide how heavy a spring you want I have an 08 jku with a warn bumper and winch I spent a lot of time looking and talking to people shops and manufactures onl to find out that most including terrflex spring won't handle a heavy bumper and full load. I had terrible sag down to less than 1/2 inch with combo so plan a head OME you can pretty much select the load you will be dealing with.

 

[Hilldweller]

The Sahara comes with 33" tires. There seems to be a lot of debate about bigger tires. This is also my daily driver (although I work from home, so no real daily drive) so I have been considering remaining stock. Thoughts?

I am also considering an a transmission cooler because my Jeep is an automatic.

No, the Sahara comes with God-awful 31.5" Bridgestones on 18" wheels. The tires are barely street-worthy, don't air-down well at all, and are VERY easy to puncture.
I know. I had a Sahara...

And the trans will overheat. Count on it.

I'd lift it 2.5" with a good real lift (Rock Krawler, Full Traction, AEV), bumpers at both ends, winch with synthetic rope, upgrade the headlights with a Daniel Stern Cibie kit, add a pair of driving lights, cb radio or ham, regear to 4.88, 33" tires on 16" wheels with proper backspace, and slider/steps. I never added extra skids.

I put 86,000 miles on this in the 3 years I had it.

Thanks. Yeah, I was thinking about a 2" or 2.5" Teraflex lift to compensate for the load and to level after adding bumpers and rockers. I am bring a friend along, so I will have a spotter.

I had a 2.5" TF lift and wouldn't do it again.

 

[JKJenn]

No, the Sahara comes with God-awful 31.5" Bridgestones on 18" wheels. The tires are barely street-worthy, don't air-down well at all, and are VERY easy to puncture.
I know. I had a Sahara...

The 2011 JKU Sahara comes with 33" Bridgestone Duelers.

 

[SulVento]

Ayup....but (I also have a Sahara that had the Bridgestones) I would swap out the Duelers for something that will work a little better off the road. You'll be happy you did. You can pretty easily sell the stock 18" wheels with tires on Craigslist. Think it took me a whole 2 days to do it.

No, you don't get enough money for them for a "no money" upgrade...but it certainly helps..

I know Bill (Hilldweller) doesn't care for the BFG All Terrains, but I've always had good performance and luck with them. I went with 315/70's on 17" wheels.


My $.02

The day I brought it home after getting the lift installed and putting new shoes on it:

 

[Hilldweller]

The 2011 JKU Sahara comes with 33" Bridgestone Duelers.
View attachment 80447

255/70-18
It measures a little less than 32".

I know Bill (Hilldweller) doesn't care for the BFG All Terrains, but I've always had good performance and luck with them. I went with 315/70's on 17" wheels.

After 4000 miles with them, sliding on wet pavement, going sideways in mud, banging the rims when I tried to air-down ---- I rotated them for the first time and found that I had a huge hole in one tire that the dealer had plugged.
Pretty nice; sold me a Jeep with a damaged tire.

But they really are miserable. The sidewalls are very thin, the tread is barely a street tread.
'Stone makes the Revo Dueller which is better but I'd still ditch those wheels and tires. The rubber for 16" wheels is so much less money; it pays for the new wheels after your first tire purchase.

 

[JPK]

The suspension set up that sounds like a perfect match for your use is the AEV 2.5" set up, which is designed to carry a lot more weight for overlanding/expedition type use, but will ride well because of the progressive rate springs AEV uses. The suspension is finished testing and will be available imminently.

The 3.5" and 4.5" AEV suspensions can safely and comfortably carry a lot more weight than the oem suspension, and according to Dave Harriton, founder of AEV, the 2.5" set up is designed to carry about 90lbs less than the 3.5" suspension. The 3.5 is designed to carry heavy AEV front and rear bumpers and tire carrier, heavier tires, a winch and typical US overlanding/expedition/exploring/camping loads.

I would't go OME, my experience with their springs is poor, though their shocks and steering stabilizers are good. Also, OME uses single rate front springs, which isn't as good as progressive rate springs all around, especially for a Jeep that will see a variety of loads and weight in different places.

Also, you should definitely go with aluminum skids. The provide good protection without the huge weight penalty. If you replace the factory transfer case skid with a River Raiders aluminum center skid you will reduce the weight of your Jeep, since that skid is heavy as hell. You will alos enhance the coverage since the oem skid is on the small size for what it needs to cover. No need for a second gas tank skid, just the engine and tranny pans and the transfer case. I'd move the evap canister to behind the oem fuel tank, plenty of room and no way it'll get whacked. If you don't move it skid it (2012's come with evap canister skids.) If anyone is interested in a photo of the evap canister in the place it ought to be, let me know I'll take a couple.

Probably the most important and significant modification you can make to enhance the performance of your Jeep RIGHT NOW is to get rid of the Bridgestones and get some decent A/T's, like BFG A/T's or Goodyear Duratracs.

Read up on the Jeeps electronic Brake Lock Differential system. With a lot of wheel spin at the front or rear axle the Jeep will apply brake to the spinning tire, transfering torque to the tire which isn't spinning. It will do it for either or both of the axles, as required. No a limited slip, and surely not a locker, but a real improvement over just an open dif. You can "assist" the system by applying you brakes and throttle at the same time, using the brake to transfer torque to the tire with grip (This works in an open dif car or truck too, even without a computer) but the system will be better than you, and it can apply brake to one tire, where as you apply brakes to all of them. I would get to know the BLD system before I sprung for a limited slip or locking dif.

JPK

 

[JKJenn]

The suspension set up that sounds like a perfect match for your use is the AEV 2.5" set up, which is designed to carry a lot more weight for overlanding/expedition type use, but will ride well because of the progressive rate springs AEV uses. The suspension is finished testing and will be available imminently.

The 3.5" and 4.5" AEV suspensions can safely and comfortably carry a lot more weight than the oem suspension, and according to Dave Harriton, founder of AEV, the 2.5" set up is designed to carry about 90lbs less than the 3.5" suspension. The 3.5 is designed to carry heavy AEV front and rear bumpers and tire carrier, heavier tires, a winch and typical US overlanding/expedition/exploring/camping loads.

I would't go OME, my experience with their springs is poor, though their shocks and steering stabilizers are good. Also, OME uses single rate front springs, which isn't as good as progressive rate springs all around, especially for a Jeep that will see a variety of loads and weight in different places.

Are you talking about the full suspension or the lift/spacer kit? Full suspension will run me over $1000.

Also, you should definitely go with aluminum skids. The provide good protection without the huge weight penalty. If you replace the factory transfer case skid with a River Raiders aluminum center skid you will reduce the weight of your Jeep, since that skid is heavy as hell. You will alos enhance the coverage since the oem skid is on the small size for what it needs to cover. No need for a second gas tank skid, just the engine and tranny pans and the transfer case. I'd move the evap canister to behind the oem fuel tank, plenty of room and no way it'll get whacked. If you don't move it skid it (2012's come with evap canister skids.) If anyone is interested in a photo of the evap canister in the place it ought to be, let me know I'll take a couple.

This is helpful, thank. I am assuming you would do an air dam skid, too?

Probably the most important and significant modification you can make to enhance the performance of your Jeep RIGHT NOW is to get rid of the Bridgestones and get some decent A/T's, like BFG A/T's or Goodyear Duratracs.

Of course if I go with a bigger tire, I will also need a new tire carrier and regearing, correct? Where I live I have to also make sure I ma getting a decent tire for snow as well.

Read up on the Jeeps electronic Brake Lock Differential system. With a lot of wheel spin at the front or rear axle the Jeep will apply brake to the spinning tire, transfering torque to the tire which isn't spinning. It will do it for either or both of the axles, as required. No a limited slip, and surely not a locker, but a real improvement over just an open dif. You can "assist" the system by applying you brakes and throttle at the same time, using the brake to transfer torque to the tire with grip (This works in an open dif car or truck too, even without a computer) but the system will be better than you, and it can apply brake to one tire, where as you apply brakes to all of them. I would get to know the BLD system before I sprung for a limited slip or locking dif.

JPK

Thanks - this was a really helpful explanation and I will definitely read up on it.

Not including roof-rack, I would like to keep budget under $2500. That is a lot of money for one year. The problem is the domino effect. If I upgrade bumpers, I get sag so I need to upgrade suspension. If I upgrade tires I might need a new tire carrier and to regear. On top of the cost of the products, I will also have to shell out the cash to do the work. This is all before the expense of actually travelling out west or my photography gear. I need a sponsor.

Oh, and I really need to start with the tranny cooler....lol. It will never end!

 

[keithro]

Your jeep in stock form will easily tackle all of those trails you mentioned earlier. Don't worry about any mods. Work on basic OffRoad driving skills. There aren't very many rock gardens or nasty roots, etc in this area so upgraded skids are not needed. If you are coming during a wet time of year you may want some a/t tires. If you want to spend some money think about rescuing yourself, especially if you're traveling with only one vehicle. Rent a sat phone for the trip. Tow strap $30? Smittybilt XRC8 Winch $300?

 

[JKJenn]

Your jeep in stock form will easily tackle all of those trails you mentioned earlier. Don't worry about any mods. There aren't very many rock gardens or nasty roots, etc in this area so upgraded skids are not needed. If you are coming during a wet time of year you may want some a/t tires. If you want to spend some money think about rescuing yourself, especially if you're traveling with only one vehicle. Rent a sat phone for the trip. Tow strap $30? Smittybilt XRC8 Winch $300?

Thanks. Yeah, I was thinking I would probably be able to get a winch and was looking at the Smittybilt, so that is helpful feedback. I do have the first generation SPOT, so I would have some back-up if I have problems. I know the SPOT is not flawless but I was fairly pleased with its performance on my trip last summer.

 

[keithro]

Spot is good, but how do you know help is coming? If you can, travel with a small group, you'll be much safer! We took a stock land rover lr3 through the HITR trail so your jeep should be fine. If your thinking about rocker guards save up and do it right the first time. The OEM rubicon guards are okay, but they don't have a step, which you will want with a rtt and or roof rack. I love the Teraflex rockguards, they are lightweight aluminum, strong, and have a nice step.

 

[Hilldweller]

You can do the build in stages.

I'd hit the wheels/tires/lift first. No puck lift; get a real one. One that addresses castor and the weight you'll be carrying in the future.
Then bumpers and winch later.

I had a Smittybilt XRC8-comp winch; worked great. Didn't need a different tire carrier for 33s either...

 

[JPK]

AEV is coming out with a 2.5" spring lift. You can read about it on their forum and see some photos of Jeeps it's installed on (the thread is labeled "News on the 2" Lift," iirc, but the lift is 2.5".) It will be out within a very short time, maybe even now. The 2.5" suspension won't run money wise what the 3.5" or 4.5" suspensions run. Dave Harriton wrote in the thread that it will cost a little more than Tera Flex's 2.5" suspension, so maybe take look the TF pricing for an idea. On the thread you can also read Dave's comments on the weight carrying ability and other features.

The oem suspension won't carry enough weight, imo. The AEV suspension will carry plenty for your use and for the later addition of bumpers, etc, if you decide you want or need them.

For what you describe as your use, I would be looking at 33"x10.5"x16" or 17" A/T tires, metric 255/85/16 or 17 or so. But the 32" oem Rubicon tires are good tires and you may be able to pick up a set of Rubicon 17" wheels with the tires on them taken off a rig a guy is putting bigger meats on. Search Ebay, or other forums' for sale sections. Take offs are good deals, imo, and you can recoup some $'s selling your 18" rims and tires.

FYI in the AEV forum thread there is a photo pf a Jeep with the 2.5" suspension and the factory Rubicon tires and wheels. Looks good - my wife has a JKUR with the 2.5" TF BB and the oem Rubicon wheels and tires, performs well too. You can run 35's on the 2.5" suspension, but with 35's comes re-gearing. As far as being good in the snow, the oem BFG M/T's on the Rubicons are siped, and they perform pretty well in my experience. They're quiet on the road for an M/T too. BTW, I added totally uneccesary Spider Trax wheel spacers to my wife's rig to bring the tires out to the endge of the fenders. Greatly improves looks, imo, but totally uneccesary.

With 33's, maybe 34's, you'll be fine with the oem tire carrier and I would hold off on bumpers for $'s and until you know what you want and need. BTW, AEV's tire carrier will work with a stock bumper and you can get a 10gal fuel carrier which mounts behind the tire, a nice way to carry extra gas or water, and it accomodates a long handled shovel as well. If you don't have a rear hitch receiver, get one. You can find them for less than $100, they are easy to install and they pay for themselves by protecting your bumper (seems like I come down on mine frequently) and in utility with racks, etc. 35's and you'll either need to strengthen your tailgate hinges or go with a carrier. There are a couple of options for strengthening the tailgate hinges if you go bigger than 33's or 34's. Can't recall off hand who makes them.

You will need a Hi Lift, a good shovel and a snatch strap too. If you travel alone alot, you might want to consider a winch. There are some pretty inexpensive options that will work well and winch plates compatible with the oem bumper are available.

Not all of this needs to be done all at once. The suspension and tires will make the greatest performance improvement for the use you describe. The rear receiver will pay for itself first time you land on it. Hi Lift, good shovel, recovery/snatch strap are really required gear. Ax or bow saw, piece of 3/4" plywood about a foot square for the jack on soft ground. A decent enough air pump kit so you can air down and back up as you need to.

The air damn skid is not so neccesary for a non-Rubicon. On the Rubicon it protects the electronic say bar disconnect gear, but on non-Rubicons it's a little high to provide much protection to the tie rod, etc. Save the $'s for now and see how it goes. If you find you need one, maybe look at Currie's tow bracket/skid. I think its less $'s than most alternatives.

There's a thread here with a photo of a chop job RoverTrader did on his oem front bumper. Looks great, doesn't add weight and gets the vulnerable ends out of the way.

Definitely yes on the transmission cooler.

Really, a JK serries Jeep is very capable off road. A plain Jane, right off the lot Sport is better than my old built CJ5 from years ago, and that was considered a really capable rig at the time. While I was in Moab this year, I was reminded of how good the Jeeps are right off the lot. I was out there twice, once during Easter Jeep Safari and once in August for a couple of days with my family. The stock Jeeps did some amazing stuff, they are really capable. And when we were out there in August I rented a lifted JKU sport with open difs, just the BLD system, for the day for my wife and hired her an instructor. My kids and I followed them along all day, and there was only one climb, which had a bypass, that we did that they didn't. I'm not sure they couldn't have done that without drama either, but the loose broken rock would have had the BLD working.

Hope this helps,

JPK

 

[JKJenn]

Lots of helpful stuff, JPK - thanks! I also like the idea of getting an instructor for the day. Did you get one from the Jeep rental places in Moab?

I keep my eyes on CL for used equipment, too. I found a pair of MBP rock rails on there that I might pick up at the need of the month to rehabilitate. Looks like I could install them myself with another set of hands. Thanks, again to JPK and everyone else for the feedback.

 

[JPK]

I think I know what rock rails you're thinking of. They're nice. IIRC, you can get steps that bolt on or off for them as well.

I rented the Jeep from Outlaw Jeep rental. I talked the manager/co-owner into instructing from the right seat for the day. He told me that normally he doesn't ride right seat, too frustrating!

There is basic to advanced instruction available through sponsors of this site and occasionally the site puts together a program in different areas of the country. There are other instructors available too. You can find some with a search.

A good way to learn might be to join a local Jeep club and ask if you can ride along on a couple of trips.

I'm not sure of your experience, but since you asked about an instructor, I pass on a couple of pointers on your Jeep:
Put the Jeep in four wheel drive BEFORE you need four wheel drive. An all too common error is to discover too late that you needed four wheel drive. It is always easier to keep the Jeep moving than to get it moving, and that is what four wheel drive is for.

Air down when you're going to be off road or on gravel for any appreciable time. Traction will improve, so will ride. Try about 15psi or so and go from there. You will need a decent pump kit to air back up when hitting the pavement again.

Some time down the road you might consider quick disconnects for your front sway bar. Important for rock crawling, but being disconnected also significantly improves ride on crappy gravel and two tracks.

When off road on any sort of slower terrain, and especially when its hot outside, shift to four low. That will disable the traction control system so the Jeep isn't fighting the terrain and "thinking" that it needs to correct a slide or whatever. Four high partially disables the system, but I'm not sure it is enough. Also, being in four low will get your auto trans pump pumping 2.72 X as fast as when in four high for better cooling.

Don't ever force the transfer case selector. It is connected to the transfer case by a ridiculously cheap plastic fitting that can be broken all to easily. In fact, next time you drive by the dealer buy two (a couple $'s apiece) and throw them in the glove compartment. One for the guy who is stuck because he busted his, one for you... A search will reveal some how to's on replacing a broken connector, and there is a kit available to permanently fix the issue. Some find shifting to four low easiest while rolling forward or backward slowly. If the Jeep seems stuck in four low or four high, moving forward a few feet ussually fixes things. Occasionally backing up a few feet works better.

Learn how to use a Hi Lift before you need the Hi Lift. They are great tools and along with a shovel and ax (and time and effort) can almost always get moving, but they have some quirks and can be dangerous to those unfamiliar (or too familiar and who then let their gaurd down.)

I'm sure some others will pitch in with some pointers and suggestions too.

JPK

 

[Rovertrader]

If in Moab, and looking for instruction, Dan Mick(SP???) is the best, hands down. Well, the best for full time Moab- otherwise use Bill Burke- Camel Trophy participant, and travels the country teaching- amazing skills- driving, recovery, etc and very personable ( http://bb4wa.com/ ), and long time buddy... I would recommend a day with Bill prior to your build actually, as it will save you 10x what the day cost- honestly, and I do not solicit very often.

JPK's list above is also a great start- no substitute for experience, and all very good pointers. I would say like most sports/interest/hobbies, a good instructor early on prevents lots of bad habits, and in the case of building rigs- lots of $$ if you end up doing things 2 or 3 times, or have a few 'contacts' while exploring. Amazing really what folks spend on their rigs, and shun the idea of a few hundred dollars for proper instruction. And one of the Expos is a great idea- couple days of looking/touching/networking/learning all in one place.