New JW Speaker 8700 Evolution 2 LED head lights looks very nice

[kojackJKU]

Jeep also has petersons with the JEEP logo on the black bar. have a look out for them too.

 

[kojackJKU]

Do the new JWs still put the brown light ring in front of the jeep like the originals do or do they have a more even beam pattern? the originals have a horrible hotspot as far as I can see. My truck lites put out more even light and wider too...

 

[GFA]

Do the new JWs still put the brown light ring in front of the jeep like the originals do or do they have a more even beam pattern? the originals have a horrible hotspot as far as I can see. My truck lites put out more even light and wider too...

Have you seen them in person or just in photos? My KC's have a huge hot spot in photos but are not bad at all in person and I'm guessing that's the case with the JWS photos in the link in post #1. Pics seem to do some weird stuff with lights for those of us who don't really know how to take the pic properly.

I hope to find out for sure this week though, ordered a set through northridge for $702 shipped..

 

[Hilldweller]

My JWS Evolutions have the brown-tinged border; it's a byproduct of the alchemy they use to produce their light.

I'll let one of Virgil's quotes explain some fundamentals.

Three main characteristics of any light are its spectral power distribution (SPD, the absolute presence and relative prevalence of the different wavelengths that humans can see), its colour rendering index (CRI, the fidelity with which the light reveals colours, compared to standardised sunlight conditions), and its correlated colour temperature (CCT, applicable only to white light, basically whether the light is "cool" or "warm" in appearance).


SPD:

The visible portion of sunlight is a continuous spectrum from red to violet, with no gaps. The visible portion of a glowing filament (which is a blackbody radiator) is likewise a continuous spectrum from red to violet, with no gaps. The spectrum of an HID lamp is a series of peaks and valleys. The light is superabundant in certain wavelengths (colours), relatively deficient in others, and absolutely deficient in still others. So from the standpoint of SPD, halogen headlamps actually are much closer to sunlight than HIDs. Which is better? Well..."better" is tricky to define here, because it really depends on what exactly we're trying to do with the light we're creating. In general, a continuous spectrum (rather than a peaks-and-valleys spectrum) is better, because it makes it easier to get a higher CRI, which I'll get to in a moment. But that's definitely not an inviolable rule! Sometimes (as for example when driving through fog or snow) we want to filter out a portion (blue to violet, in this case) of the spectrum. And for general illumination, there are many excellent discontinuous-spectrum lights (fluorescents, HIDs, LEDs, etc.), though this is not an either/or situation. The old fluorescent lights and mercury vapour street lamps produced yucky-looking light because of gross excesses and deficiencies (peaks and valleys) in the spectrum, but today's phosphor and halide technologies are giving us fluoro, HID, and LED lights that may have a peaky spectrum, but contain enough of the various wavelengths to produce a good-quality light. It is worth noting here that there is no such a thing as "full-spectrum" light. The term is used by marketers of everything from headlight bulbs to seasonal affective disorder lights to reading lamps to new fluoro tubes for your kitchen, but it means whatever any particular marketeer wants it to mean. There is no standard definition — not even close.



CRI:

Obviously, not all sunlight is the same, so a set of conditions has been standardised. In greatly simplified terms, the conditions can be understood as "noonday sun on a clear day". This is considered to be a CRI of 1.00 (sometimes stated as "100"). There is no light of CRI higher than 100, and a higher CRI is always better than a lower one except in certain very specialised lighting tasks (as for example in photographic darkrooms or in situations where ordinarily-tangential factors such as preservation of night vision, rather than ordinary factors like effective illumination, are the priority). A properly-fed tungsten-halogen filament lamp with a colourless glass or quartz envelope has a CRI of between 0.9 and 0.99 ("90" and "99"). Current-production automotive HIDs have CRI of between 0.7 and 0.74 ("70" and "74"). So, again, from the standpoint of CRI, halogen headlamps are closer to natural sunlight than HIDs.



CCT:

This is measured in Kelvins (not "degrees Kelvin" as is sometimes incorrectly stated), and is directly keyed to the kelvin temperature of a blackbody radiator. In this scale, there is no such thing as "better/worse", just different/same/similar. The standardised sunlight conditions described above are considered to have a CCT of 6500K. Automotive HIDs (real ones, not ones that have been jiggered to produce bluer-than-standard light) are between 4000K and 4500K. Properly-fed tungsten-halogens are between 3100K and 3450K. So, in this respect, automotive HID headlamps are closer to sunlight.

Now, what are the safety performance implications? Enough research has been done to show that the poorer CRI of HID headlamps is of no safety consequence. Stop signs still look sufficiently red, for example, and guide signs still look yellow enough. The SPD might be causing some glare-related problems. Automotive HIDs have a high spike in the blue-violet region, and there's pretty good evidence that just as some people are glare-sensitive and some are not, some people are blue-sensitive and some are not. This is not a medical condition or disability, it's just a human variance like nose size or eye colour. There's also prety good evidence that at any given intensity, headlamp light with a higher proportion of blue light causes more glare than headlamp light with a lower proportion of blue in it. There is competing evidence, however — yes, academic researchers do compete with one another, with theories and studies and data instead of long-jumping frogs or whatever — suggesting that a higher blue content improves certain aspects of drivers' night vision. Scientifically this one hasn't been shaken all the way out yet, and it's possible both effects might exist simultaneously to some degree. From a marketing perspective, the question is moot; the decision's been made to push more and more towards the direction of bluish-white car lights.

Up to now, most of the research has effectively conflated CCT and SPD, because of the limitations of the headlamp light sources available for study: Tungsten-halogen bulbs have a high CRI, a continuous SPD, and a relatively low CCT. HIDs have a low CRI, a discontinuous SPD, and a relatively high CCT. This is to some degree an implementational limitation, not a conceptual one, and in my opinion it is likely to be found, eventually, that a blue-rich SPD can cause glare problems but a high CCT can potentially improve seeing performance. That is going to be a tricky balance to optimise, for high CCT to a significant degree goes along with blue-rich SPD. But we're now seeing LEDs that have a higher CCT than HID headlamp bulbs, but without a proportionately higher blue spike. It will be interesting to see what shakes out of this. The marketeers may have to find another tactic, having already painted themselves into a corner using blue paint: up to now, the bogus claim of "whiter" headlamp light has been used to refer to light that is in fact bluer. When it becomes possible to provide headlamp light that is of higher CRI and higher CCT rather than just higher in blue content, that light will in a more real sense be "whiter" than HID headlamp light...but what are they going to call it...?

So, to address observations about light distribution differences between the three best 7" LED headlamps, two contenders use a similar delivery method. Both Trucklite and Peterson use two LEDs and a split parabola. They both use a single LED for lowbeam and both LEDs for highbeam. The "artifacts" in the lightfields from these two are made by the facets in the parabolas and by the very basic nature of the LEDs' shapes themselves.
JW Speaker took a different approach to overcome "artifacts" and SPD/CRI shortcomings. They use arrays of LEDs and projectors to distribute the light. It results in a much more even spread of light.
This should get even better with the Evo 2.

 

[moabian]

I hope to find out for sure this week though, ordered a set through northridge for $702 shipped..

Ditto...but I'm not sure when they will arrive. When I checked last week with Northridge, they said "it shouldn't be long" before they received some. My 7-month-old 8700's will soon be on eBay. I actually got a better price by about $18 through Quadratec (even included harnesses, which I already have), but I've had so many problems with Quadratec that I prefer to order through Northridge.

Update: Just heard from Northridge. They will be in stock in 14 days.

 

[kojackJKU]

My JWS Evolutions have the brown-tinged border; it's a byproduct of the alchemy they use to produce their light.

I'll let one of Virgil's quotes explain some fundamentals.



So, to address observations about light distribution differences between the three best 7" LED headlamps, two contenders use a similar delivery method. Both Trucklite and Peterson use two LEDs and a split parabola. They both use a single LED for lowbeam and both LEDs for highbeam. The "artifacts" in the lightfields from these two are made by the facets in the parabolas and by the very basic nature of the LEDs' shapes themselves.
JW Speaker took a different approach to overcome "artifacts" and SPD/CRI shortcomings. They use arrays of LEDs and projectors to distribute the light. It results in a much more even spread of light.
This should get even better with the Evo 2.

I am guessing that the "uneven" light pattern from my trucklite can't be picked up by camera like the "even" light spread can from the JW?

From the photos the JW has a way more uneven light (huge light blob out from the jeep, then a brown ring then NO light) pattern than the truck light (even light from the front of the light on out to cut off and wide, NO BLOB). "x" aside because that is a non issue when actually driving. THe only time the x is even visible is when parked at a wall or coming up behind another rig.

 

[Hilldweller]

I am guessing that the "uneven" light pattern from my trucklite can't be picked up by camera like the "even" light spread can from the JW?

From the photos the JW has a way more uneven light (huge light blob out from the jeep, then a brown ring then NO light) pattern than the truck light (even light from the front of the light on out to cut off and wide, NO BLOB). "x" aside because that is a non issue when actually driving. THe only time the x is even visible is when parked at a wall or coming up behind another rig.

I don't know if it's fair but, every time I read your retorts I hear them in a Homer Simpson voice. Especially when you put the sciencey things in quotes.
Homer distrusts science as well.

Here's Virgil again:

Headlight beams are not simple spots or floods, they are actually very complex, with intricate requirements for a variety of minimum and maximum intensities at a long list of angular points within the beam. The whole optical system (light source, reflector/s, lens/es, bulb shield) works as a system to produce beams that meet the requirements. Each headlamp is designed, engineered, tested, and certified/approved to give acceptable safety performance with one specific kind of light source -- a halogen bulb, an HID bulb, or an array of LEDs.

The human brain is a pattern craving thing. It fills in the blanks; it covers omissions, hides flaws. Hence the miracle of optical illusions.

(the spokes aren't actually moving)

FMVss-108 requires that there be light along a set of points and, equally important, that there not be light along sets of points.
The JWS products meet the newest iteration of the law; the Trucklite Phase 7 meets an older standard.
They're both legal, safe, and good products.

The Speaker lights have a much more thorough spread of light though. Not that they don't have "artifacts" of their own; they do.
But, by using sciencey things, we can measure the spread.

FWIW, we installed a set of TL in one of Stump's Jeeps and a set of JWS in the other and let him drive them for a long time.
Overall he picked the JWS for normal driving.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1082758

 

[kojackJKU]

Bill you give yourself too much credit my friend. I am simply stating what I am observing from your own photos. the JW have brown colored light coming from the bottom of the housings, the beam is a big blob of light in the middle of the road with not much spread, and have no lighting in front of the the vehicle. The truck lights have a mild x pattern when up close to something, but otherwise have wide spread of beam so you can see the sides of the highways and roads (very important to us who live in high moose populations), plus they light the road right from the bumper on out. As far as I can see from YOUR OWN PHOTOS, the truck lite puts out a better beam of even light (something you tout in various threads as very important, and slam anything that has hot spots "like you claim my hella lights to have"), and the JW which you state is "the be all end all" has huge hot spots just the width of the road.

You did nothing to answer my question only try to call me stupid, however, buddy, I am far from it.

So again, Please answer my question.......DO'H!

As for your buddy picking the JW's, The brain can trick you into thinking something is better than it acutally is. hmmmmmm, where did I hear that before? Again, by using your own photos the TL looks to put out a wider more even beam, no hot spots.

 

[Beamer pilot]

While slightly off topic, we were driving back last night and I was daydreaming with the high beams on as a vehicle approached in the opposite direction, he flashed his high beams on and off. I immediately switched to low beam. As he crossed past me he turned on his roof light bar, a punitive move of course, and I burst out laughing. The wife figured I was nuts...and then I explained that his possibly 50 inch light bar was less powerful than his high beams. I don't think anyone would laugh if I turned on all 6 NightForce in their face. Never done it and never will, don't want that on my conscience.

 

[kojackJKU]

I know, most of these LED bars suck. As stated before, my friend has a crap load of rigid bars all over his jeep, and there is no comparasion between even my two hid hellas. The rigids are just NOT BRIGHT at all.

 

[moabian]

I know, most of these LED bars suck. The rigids are just NOT BRIGHT at all.

Staying off topic...I heartily disagree. I ran Hellas on my previous Jeep and had $2000 worth of HID lights on my Tundra. The 30" Rigid e-series bar on the JK is easily as bright as any of those. The only thing I dislike about the LED bar is that the spread is not wide enough...which could make it seem dimmer when viewed at close range from an approaching vehicle. Of course, I'm sure that whatever you have on your vehicles is so much better and brighter than anything any of us could ever hope to put on ours.

Back on topic...has anyone put their hands on the 8700 V2 yet? Mine should ship no later than Oct. 27 according to Northridge.

 

[GFA]

Staying off topic...I heartily disagree. I ran Hellas on my previous Jeep and had $2000 worth of HID lights on my Tundra. The 30" Rigid e-series bar on the JK is easily as bright as any of those. The only thing I dislike about the LED bar is that the spread is not wide enough...which could make it seem dimmer when viewed at close range from an approaching vehicle. Of course, I'm sure that whatever you have on your vehicles is so much better and brighter than anything any of us could ever hope to put on ours.

Back on topic...has anyone put their hands on the 8700 V2 yet? Mine should ship no later than Oct. 27 according to Northridge.

Same shipping date for me also.

I have a cheap no name brand 40" led bar on my gobi. With it on, the LED KC headlights are unnoticed. For a light that points only straight ahead, it illuminates the sides plenty enough for me as its only used offroad at slow speed. It is horrible lighting for any kind of driving at speed as it magnifies any kind of haze or fog even when you can't see it by headlights.

 

[DallasJKU]

I would like to hear some reviews. I didn't like the TruckLites at all.

 

[Hilldweller]

...

Back on topic...has anyone put their hands on the 8700 V2 yet? Mine should ship no later than Oct. 27 according to Northridge.

Still waiting for mine from the corporate office. I was hoping to get them today but UPS came and went already.
I wanted to leave from the office tomorrow to go camping and already have the light meter in the Jeep.

 

[moabian]

Mine shipped yesterday...earlier than expected. Scheduled UPS delivery date is Wednesday, 10/22.