New Member, and Questions (LONG POST)

[Astrotraveler]

Hi folks. I'm in the process of buying an off-road capable vehicle, and have narrowed my search down to two possibilities: a 4Runner or Tacoma. I considered the NIssan XTerra OR, but dropped it due to poor value retention and a weak front differential (I know two different explorers who are on their second and third front differentials respectively and I don't think either truck has more than 60k miles on it). I considered the FJC as well, but I need a little more rear leg room and didn't like the outward visibility rearward or the suicide rear doors.

Currently I have a 2007 Subaru Forester. Originally I purchased this vehicle for a 180 mile round trip daily commute and for its cargo capacity for hauling my astronomy gear to dark sky sites. It's been great car for those purposes, but its entry-level off-pavement capability has encouraged me to travel farther off the beaten path for observing trips, and a funny thing happened. I ended up enjoying the off-highway travel as much as the destination.

Though the Forester is surprisingly capable for a car-based, low clearance (~8") AWD vehicle, I am now to the point where I am scraping its belly pans on obstacles, causing its brakes to fade on long descents and likely risking damage that would compromise the vehicle's other role as a commuter/daily driver. I will either need to modify the vehicle or get something else that is more durable for off-pavement use. I'm familiar with the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, but am leary of modifying a vehicle that is still under warranty. I also prefer buying new rather than used. This means that I would like an off-road capable stock vehicle that meets my needs.

Now, what are my needs? I need a vehicle that can safely transport lots of gear including a full complement of camping gear (sleeping bag, tent, stove, food, cooler, clothing, water, camp furniture, etc.; sometimes x2 if I have a guest), as well as a full complement of somewhat delicate astronomy gear (telescope optical tubes, German equatorial mounts, 60AH battery with twin amorphous solar panels for recharging, observing chair, eyepieces, charts, field guides, etc.), over Class 3 trails with occasional Class 4 segments. I'm using the rating system featured here (check out the Trails Tab and scroll to the bottom):

http://www.wilddeathvalley.com/

The pictures are illustrative of conditions I'm seeing on my trips. My trips generally last 4 to 10 days, and often cover more than a thousand miles each way on highway before getting to the truly fun stuff.

I considered the Trail Edition 4Runner, but have seen so much bad feedback about the in-dash TomTom/Stereo unit that I'm a little turned off. Given the long hauls I face, an iPod is a must and I need to be able to play it reliably through the stereo head unit. As much for audiobooks as music. The auxiliary port seems to be compromised by the TomTom/Eclipse Navi/audio unit in the TE. I also like low-mounted driving lamps for near-vehicle peripheral illumination (they ain't for fog). I'm also wondering why there's no downhill assist with the rear locker on the TE yet the Taco TRD Offroad gets both a rear locker and downhill assist. Of course, the uses I've described may not need a rear locker. I've been slowly traversing them anyway with no low range and modest clearance in the Subaru. If I go 4Runner, I am more likely to go stock SR5 with value package than TE I think. If I go Tacoma, it would be a double-cab (family of four) TRD Offroad.

Given my needs and wants, which of the two vehicles (T4R SR5 value package or Tacoma TRD Offroad) would you recommend, and why? I plan on buying within the next week or so.

Thanks a mint!

- Jim

 

[Desert Dan]

it is pretty hard to beat either the Toyota Taco or 4-Runner.

You can't get a stick shift in the 4-Runner but rear lockers are available in both.

The 4-Runner has more lockable space for your atronomy gear than a pick-up with a camper shell.

Have you looked a 4-door Wrangler?

 

[Astrotraveler]

Thanks Dan.

I really hadn't considered the Wrangler Unlimited. I'll take a look. The standard Wrangler doesn't have enough cargo capacity for all the gear I haul and is a bit noisy for working by phone on the highway (at least with proper tires ).

Regards,

Jim

 

[heeltoe989]

First off Jim.....

WELCOME!!!!! :smiley_drive:

I would go with the Tacoma double cab. I'm a bit bias yes, but a family of 4, I am too. I would run out of space for camping and trips in the 4 runner without having a trailer or a large box on top. I like having a truck too for hauling and carrying things for the wife's gardening hobbies such as stones and trees without messing the inside up as I don't have room for another trailer. The Tacoma also pulls my holiday trailer and gear very well.

Don't get me wrong, the 4 runner is a great truck and one of the best SUV's out there. I just like the Tacoma for my life a bit more.

Good luck,

Richard

 

[Rallyroo]

Since you said you would only consider new vehicles and from your short list, I'd pick the Tacoma Double Cab (5' "short" or 6' "long" bed, your choice).

For the amount of gear you're hauling, the truck will probably serve you better. Granted you will have to invest in a topper to keep your gear secure and dry.

Just know that if you get the Tacoma Double Cab in the 6' "long" bed you cannot get it with the rear locker and it comes in automatic only (if that matters to you). To get the locker you will need to get the short bed version with the TRD Offroad package. And since you're in California, it's the TRD Offroad Package w/JBL (the upgraded stereo w/satellite and AUX input).

Good luck with your decision and final answer.

 

[teotwaki]

I am more than slightly biased towards the 4Runner and mine has been great in Death Valley. It is very comfortable as a daily driver, has tons of internal storage and lots of roof space to rack up anything such as Kayaks, RTTs etc. With nothing mounted on the roof I get 20 MPG at 70 MPH in cruise control on long drives.

Try to get the Trail Edition with the rear locker. If not you can add an ARB air locker later. I swapped out the base Toyota stereo for a Scion 160 Watt pull-out ($50 EBay) and bought a cable that gives me full iPod control and charging.

 

[Astrotraveler]

Thanks for the replies (and welcomes) thus far.

Would it be fair to say that a stock 4Runner SR5 (non-Trail Edition) would not be quite as capable as a stock Tacoma TRD Offroad? I don't plan on modding the vehicle for approximately 60k miles, so having decent capability "out of the box" is a nice plus. I also solo most of my excursions, so peace of mind plays a role.

If I go Tacoma, I will add the factory roof racks and use a 16 cu ft Yakima Skybox (and the rear flat storage area with the rear seats folded) for stuff that needs to stay dry. The other stuff would sit in the open bed (with a cargo net and likely the divider) either in Rubbermaid buckets or in its own waterproof case (Pelican usually). I won't have more than one passenger on offroading/overland trips. The wife gets car sick, the kids prefer virtual/video existence to real existence and the only folks I can con into roughing it are my astronomy buddies, and even they balk at hiking in the heat. To get the rear locker it seems I have to stick with the short bed. A 5-foot bed rules out sleeping in it.

On the other hand, I really like how quiet the 4Runner is inside. I'm currently a "consultant" so I work a lot by phone. A quiet interior is a huge plus. I also like the shorter wheelbase of the 4Runner. I don't see myself getting a Trail Edition 4Runner as I am turned off by the Nav/Stereo integration being glitchy, and also preventing the use of the standard audio auxiliary port for an iPod/MP3 player. When I drove a 4Runner recently I forgot to measure the length of the loading floor with the back seats folded. Could a 5'11" male lay down in the back or is it a bit shorter?

I have the "cherry" trip planned already. Something mild - the Mojave Road over 3 days, but in the reverse (contra-pioneer) West-to-East direction. My stock Forester with all-terrain tires has done most of that route, so I'm not expecting any surprises and felt it would be a good solo drive for getting used to the vehicle.

Thanks again,

Jim

 

[DarkHelmet]

Agreed with all the comments above so far. I have a 2005 Tacoma Double Cab TRD Off Road with the locker. I LOVE this truck! As you have seen, some people love having the 4-runner SUV type. Some people love the Tacoma as a truck.

You really can't go wrong with either, so it will come down to personal needs and preferences as to which you purchase.

I think the pros and cons of each have been stated well. The pros of the SUV being internal storage for equipment. The pros on the truck being overall load capacity of having a bed.

I am starting to consider a canopy/topper for my Tacoma for more dry, secure storage of equipment. The wife and I often carry all of our SAR/EMT equipment inside the cab which completely takes up the rear seat space and then some. A topper would allow us to securely place that equipment in the bed as well as more equipment and be able to haul more people in the cab (just found out this week that we have a little one on the way :victory: ).

Hope that helps.

 

[Desert Dan]

Does anyone with a short bed Taco have a shell with a mini-tent extension to cover the tailgaite and your feet while sleeping?

I guess you could always make up something with a tarp.

The Taco TRD Off Road Package is on my list as a future vehicle esp. since I have an H3 and GM i s heading toward BK etc.

 

[CA-RJ]

Would it be fair to say that a stock 4Runner SR5 (non-Trail Edition) would not be quite as capable as a stock Tacoma TRD Offroad? I don't plan on modding the vehicle for approximately 60k miles, so having decent capability "out of the box" is a nice plus. I also solo most of my excursions, so peace of mind plays a role.

Yes, that is a fair assessment. If you're looking for something stock that is very capable out of the box, a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited might fit the bill. Having dual lockers stock would really take you anywhere you'd want to go. Right now, I'm sure you can get a pretty nice deal on a Rubicon too.

 

[Cackalak Han]

IIRC, I couldn't lay down in the back of a 4Runner (with the rear seats down, of course). If I went diagonal, it would be okay, but that would be one uncomfortable night. I'm 5'11" as well. I think your best bet is a RTT (roof top tent) which ever you decided to buy.

As far as the vehicles, you can't go wrong with either. All preference. I had 2 4Runners and loved them. I finally chose a Tacoma, because I haul dirt, mulch, etc. for the house (the never-ending source of chores! ),

ski/hunt/camp often, which means all the dirty stuff gets put in the truck bed, and the interior won't get torn up due to constant use. Since you will have all of your equipment with you, I'm thinking your cargo area would get beat up pretty quick with a 4Runner if you're taking stuff out and in constantly.

Also, as far as resale value, Toyota's are great. But Tacoma's have always held their value better than 4Runners and any other SUV, actually. Even against other trucks, it's come out on top against Tundra's and T100's. Smaller, semi-gas-efficient trucks will always have a greater demand.

The pro's for the 4Runner is the better ride quality, interior (I like that 4Runners have auto-climate control), and coils in the rear.

But, I'd be happy with either. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Tucson T4R]

welcome Jim. :sombrero:

Over the years I have driven both Toyota P/Us and 4Runners. From my perspective they are both very capable it just boils down to, do you need or want the open truck bed/capacity?

I personaly have been in 4Runners now since 1990 and have been very happy. I like the enclosed storage protection from weather and dust and the ride is hard to beat. I wouldn't worry about the stereo too much since you can alway change that out to what you want with aftermarket options as others have said.

If possible, get the locker option since you like the rougher trail capability. The main limiting factor off the showroom floor with the 4th gen 4Runners is the lack of ground clearance. The current design rides too low for anything above about 2.5 rated trail. I upgraded to the OME suspension and one step up in tire size. That gave me all the clearance I need.

From there, this forum will help you open your wallet and pour as much $$ as you want into futher mods. :elkgrin:

 

[teotwaki]

Thanks for the replies (and welcomes) thus far.

Would it be fair to say that a stock 4Runner SR5 (non-Trail Edition) would not be quite as capable as a stock Tacoma TRD Offroad? I don't plan on modding the vehicle for approximately 60k miles, so having decent capability "out of the box" is a nice plus. I also solo most of my excursions, so peace of mind plays a role.

If I go Tacoma, I will add the factory roof racks and use a 16 cu ft Yakima Skybox (and the rear flat storage area with the rear seats folded) for stuff that needs to stay dry. The other stuff would sit in the open bed (with a cargo net and likely the divider) either in Rubbermaid buckets or in its own waterproof case (Pelican usually). I won't have more than one passenger on offroading/overland trips. The wife gets car sick, the kids prefer virtual/video existence to real existence and the only folks I can con into roughing it are my astronomy buddies, and even they balk at hiking in the heat. To get the rear locker it seems I have to stick with the short bed. A 5-foot bed rules out sleeping in it.

On the other hand, I really like how quiet the 4Runner is inside. I'm currently a "consultant" so I work a lot by phone. A quiet interior is a huge plus. I also like the shorter wheelbase of the 4Runner. I don't see myself getting a Trail Edition 4Runner as I am turned off by the Nav/Stereo integration being glitchy, and also preventing the use of the standard audio auxiliary port for an iPod/MP3 player. When I drove a 4Runner recently I forgot to measure the length of the loading floor with the back seats folded. Could a 5'11" male lay down in the back or is it a bit shorter?

I have the "cherry" trip planned already. Something mild - the Mojave Road over 3 days, but in the reverse (contra-pioneer) West-to-East direction. My stock Forester with all-terrain tires has done most of that route, so I'm not expecting any surprises and felt it would be a good solo drive for getting used to the vehicle.

Thanks again,

Jim

I think that the stock comparison is a good point. A stock 4Runner will be better off road than a stock 4Rester for ground clearance. :ylsmoke: The stock Tacoma will be better than the 4Runner for approach and departure angles. 27/20 vs. 30/24 Coilovers on the 4Runner improve the approach angle.

Ground clearance will be close because the front skid is about the lowest point on both vehicles. Coilovers fix that too.

If your original goal was to go more places than the 4Rester then no problemo with the 4Runner as no mods are required. Modding the 4Runner is so easy with swapping the coilovers up front and the coils and shocks in the back. Easy garage work. Same for the Tacoma.

 

[Astrotraveler]

No problem John.

As I don't plan on modding anything with the vehicle for quite sometime, including audio, it is important too me that all systems included in the vehicle work reliably. I don't fancy paying extra for a Nav/Audio system that has a seemingly high failure rate, and hasn't performed as advertised for many purchasers (both in 4Runners and aftermarket). Specifically, I've read many accounts of being unable to use the MP3 Player/iPod with the Aux audio port in vehicles equipped with the TomTom/Eclipse system despite the fact that the Toyota website specifies that the auxiliary audio port works with the system.

Other items I dislike about the Trail Edition is the lack of driving lights (again, I don't plan on modding and I like the ability to illuminate the area directly in front of the truck and in the brush along the edge of the road), and lack of descent assist. I realize that the 4WD systems between the Tacoma and 4Runner are different, but the TRD Offroad Tacoma has both rear locker and descent assist. There also seems to be better discounts on Tacomas than 4Runners.

Sure there are things I don't dig about the Tacoma too. Rear drum brakes being a biggie, and the brake feel versus the 4Runner leaves a lot to be desired. But it seems that with the Trail Edition 4Runner you pay quite a bit more to get three great features (Bilsteins, very classic alloys and a factory rear locker) and a questionable feature, the poor Nav/Audio solution, and to lose a couple of interesting (to me) features available on the cheaper SR5 trim, driving lights and descent assist.

I just can't get the feature/cost/hassle/benefit calculus to work out in my head in favor of the Trail Edition.

Regards,

Jim

 

[deadbeat son]

I had to think about this choice pretty seriously as well. Here were some of the pros & cons that helped me make my choice.

The Tacoma is assembled in either Mexico or California while the 4Runner is still assembled in Japan. [prepares flame suit] Point - 4Runner [/flame suit]
The Tacoma has rear leaves while the 4Runner has coils. Point - 4Runner
The Tacoma has a separate cargo compartment while the 4Runner's is integrated. Point - Tacoma (I'll be hauling my Husky-mix step-dog & don't want hair in the cab, plus, I'll sometimes be hauling gas cans for the dirt bike and don't want the fumes in the cabin.)
The Tacoma with the TRD OR package was easier to find than the Trail Edition 4Runer. Point - Tacoma
The Tacoma has a lower MSRP than the 4Runner and also had a bigger cash back allowance when I purchased it. Point - Tacoma

It was a tough call, but the Taco won for me in the end. After much deliberation, the separate cargo area is what made the final decision. Either way you choose, you can't go wrong!

For the record, I BRIEFLY considered a Rubicon Unlimited, but the fit and finish of Chrysler products' interiors leaves a lot to be desired. In my opinion, the Toyota drives, rides, and handles a lot better as well.