News Flash! Americans don't want to buy expensive and unreliable cars😳

[ThundahBeagle]

Oh I was just speaking to the sect that thinks that every new Jeep is 'not a Jeep'. There's some truth to that, they get more refined and less rugged, just like everything else. Who would want to daily a YJ though!

Um, I kind of have a special place in my heart for the YJ. But no, I dont think I'd want to daily it 100 highway miles.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I think price has a lot more to do with it than reliablity. Look at all the KIA/Hyundai cars on the road that blow up engines on a regular basis! People buy them like crazy.

My 2020 Sport WIllys JLU is a great rig. Hand crank windows, hand push locks, limited slip rear end, and it does all I want it to do. It was affordable used, but I would not have been able to afford it new.

My 2014 GMC Sierra - wonderful vehicle that I could not have afforded new

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I’ll happily, partially disagree.

Since most of the major US brands still have those crappy 3/36k and 5/50k warranties, it’s way too easy for a new car owner to blow past those anemic, low mile limits in just a few years and then have no manufacturer coverage left.

If I’m going to pay $50k or more for a new rig, I’m gonna want the vehicle to be reliable (and warrantied) for more than a couple of years.

And when you think about it, that concern about the reliability problem is even worse for people buying with a loan. Those folks certainly would want a vehicle to last for the duration of the loan term without it having major uncovered mechanical problems.

I think this is also another reason behind the KIA/HYUNDAI brand popularity questioned above by SVTRIT … they both have a 10/100k powertrain warranty.

Yes sir! Its appalling to know that a 50, 60, 70 thousand dollar (or more) GMCpickup has a 3/36 standard, with the option to spend even more. That's maddening, especially in the days of AFM/DFM and clutch pack 4x4

 

[Jupiter58]

You have to remember the demographics on here.
The best vehicle ever built was a 60s Land Cruiser with bias ply tires, leaf spring suspension, 3 speed transmission and 35 hp.
Better than anything built today!

 

[Jupiter58]

I bet, going on record here, if you drop the cost and throw a IFS on a Wrangler, sales will spike.

It’s called a Cherokee and you are correct, they sell millions of them.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

It’s called a Cherokee and you are correct, they sell millions of them.

CINO, sir. The real Cherokees are XJ's!

 

[STREGA]

You have to remember the demographics on here.
The best vehicle ever built was a 60s Land Cruiser with bias ply tires, leaf spring suspension, 3 speed transmission and 35 hp.
Better than anything built today!

Just bought a ‘94 Geo Tracker (Suzuki) 2 door, 4wd with 52,384 original miles on it. Clear coat is peeling off in places but zero rust and the interior is in excellent condition. Has the hard top option and came with a tow bar. It runs great, AT shifts like it supposed to and engine compartment is as clean as can be. Came with all these bells and whistles:

Manual door locks
Hand crank windows
Manual seat adjustments
Manual locking hubs
Manual transfer case
Anemic 4cylinder engine that is turning 4K RPM’s at 65 mph.
Wind/engine noise that almost requires a intercom system to have a conversation with your passenger
Cassette player (that still works)!

Man I love this thing! Do I want to drive it long distance? Hedoublehockeysticks NO.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

It's great to see so many folks who have been well served by their Jeeps! But, individual experiences with a particular vehicle aren't relevant to other buyers really - they are only relevant to the buyer who had the good experience, and maybe a trusted friend or two. I'm not surprised Stellantis is struggling - they don't represent good value compared to the competition. Let's take a look at the 4x4 market specifically, because it doesn't matter if everyone here has had great experiences with their jeeps - the aggregate tells the story, and folks see that story and go buy a Toyota instead. And the aggregate is controlled for units sold, so the idea that "of course there's Jeeps with problems, they sell so many" doesn't really hold up.

I'm not being mean to Jeep - I LOVE Jeeps. I've owned two and put about 400,000km on them. They were definitely not without problems but I loved them anyway, and mine always got me home. But I would not recommend them for reliability reasons just because I always got home - I'd recommend them for a whole host of other reasons, but reliability is not one of them. Bad bearings, cheap sensors, etc. are all pretty common problems - all fixable with better-than-OEM upgrades, but that begs the question why not put these better products in to begin with?

The answer is money - folks can argue that "If Stellantis used a higher spec bearings/sensors/etc. in every JL, they'd have to increase the price", but what I've seen is that the price has increased anyway - they cost as much as a Toyota - but without the commensurate increase in quality, and that's going to put people off. A base 4-runner starts at $57k CDN. A 4-door base Jeep is $52k after over $2k in baked-in discounts.








That extra $5k puts the buyer a lot further ahead in aggregate reliability:

Consumer Reports


JD Power



If I'm shopping for a new 4x4, the above tells me that buying a jeep is a bad decision, and buying a Toyota is a good decision.

All that being said, I actually AM in the market for a new 4x4, and I won't be buying a Toyota - because, to a large degree, buying a vehicle like this isn't a good or bad decision, it's an emotional one. You gotta get one that gives you smiles for miles - and I'm sure many here would agree - those smiles can make us turn a bit of a blind eye to things like aggregate reliability ratings. But, we are an enthusiasts community, so we're apt to do that - the average consumer not so much.

If Stellantis were selling their vehicles for a lot less than Toyota, they'd have way higher sales. Hard to say what that would mean for their fortunes as a company as I don't have line-of-sight on the margins, but I don't believe they are priced at a "cost plus X%" - strikes me they are sold at what Stellantis thinks the market will bear, and they have really misread the market.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Well, I just read in Jalopnik that {Dodge} will continue selling the 2009-based classic. 2 door, 8 foot bed going for about 36k