Next generation snatch block

M

MartinDWhite

New member
MOguy said:
I would think the soft shackle or rope used to attach the ring to your anchor would get very warm do to the friction. Would that heat weaken and cause excessive wear on that soft shackle or rope? Wouldn't the knot in the soft shackle or rope also be a weak point?
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The soft shackle knot is not seeing any more or different force than it sees during a recovery without a pulley. The knots in soft shackles are no more of a concern for this application, than any use of a soft shackle for a recovery.

Heat is generated by force and speed. The pulley rotates very slowly on the soft shackle and that heat is absorbed by the mass of the aluminum pulley well before it would be enough to hurt the rope. A little googling shows that most winch line is of a fiber capable of short bursts of temperatures of 130*C (260*F) and sustained heat of 70*C (160*F) (https://issuu.com/eurofibers/docs/name8f0d44). This means the aluminum pulley, which is a great heat sink, would need to be hot enough to instantly boil water for it to do damage to the soft shackle or hot enough that you can't touch it if the pull was longer than a few minutes AFTER the pulley got hot. Both of these are not possible without a dramatic level of abuse of the equipment that I don't think can be reached with any winch on a vehicle.
 
MOguy

MOguy

Explorer
MartinDWhite said:
The soft shackle knot is not seeing any more or different force than it sees during a recovery without a pulley. The knots in soft shackles are no more of a concern for this application, than any use of a soft shackle for a recovery.

Heat is generated by force and speed. The pulley rotates very slowly on the soft shackle and that heat is absorbed by the mass of the aluminum pulley well before it would be enough to hurt the rope. A little googling shows that most winch line is of a fiber capable of short bursts of temperatures of 130*C (260*F) and sustained heat of 70*C (160*F) (https://issuu.com/eurofibers/docs/name8f0d44). This means the aluminum pulley, which is a great heat sink, would need to be hot enough to instantly boil water for it to do damage to the soft shackle or hot enough that you can't touch it if the pull was longer than a few minutes AFTER the pulley got hot. Both of these are not possible without a dramatic level of abuse of the equipment that I don't think can be reached with any winch on a vehicle.
Click to expand...


What about rope to rope contact? As long as there is a constant tension the line should stay on the ring but if there is no tension the line can come off the ring. Tension picks up again and you would have rope on rope of line contact while you pull.
 
M

MartinDWhite

New member
MOguy said:
What about rope to rope contact? As long as there is a constant tension the line should stay on the ring but if there is no tension the line can come off the ring. Tension picks up again and you would have rope on rope of line contact while you pull.
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If tension is lost in the system then the entire setup will droop. Only if the system droops and touches the ground does it seem like the winch line will fall out of the pulley grove and stay to the side. It looks like the pulley groove is very deep compared to a normal pulley. It looks 2 to 3 rope diameters deep. This will cause the system to try and right itself after drooping without touching the ground, and probably even if it does touch the ground. If someone lets all the tension come off a recovery system with a winch recovery and then regains tension and starts pulling again without checking all the gear, that is REALLY bad. No one should do that in any recovery setup or situation. As for an accidental winch rope on soft shackle contact without a pull, that is not sufficiently different from a soft shackle holding a tree strap or a soft shackle joining a winch line and a bridle to be of concern.

If the recovery setup is popping the winch line or tensioning and un-tensioning a lot, then it MIGHT be advisable to add a short Kinetic Recovery Rope (KRR) section to the system to avoid the shock loads and smooth out the pull. This must be weighted carefully as such a setup will store a lot more energy.

It might even just wind up the softshackle and spin it (rotating about the axis of the center line of the rope like a smoke ring) in whatever is on the other end. It might not be a problem at all. I am going to have to try that....

I don't see rope on rope contact as a possible issue without bad luck and poor recoverymanship (is that a word).
 
MOguy

MOguy

Explorer
MartinDWhite said:
If tension is lost in the system then the entire setup will droop. Only if the system droops and touches the ground does it seem like the winch line will fall out of the pulley grove and stay to the side. It looks like the pulley groove is very deep compared to a normal pulley. It looks 2 to 3 rope diameters deep. This will cause the system to try and right itself after drooping without touching the ground, and probably even if it does touch the ground. If someone lets all the tension come off a recovery system with a winch recovery and then regains tension and starts pulling again without checking all the gear, that is REALLY bad. No one should do that in any recovery setup or situation. As for an accidental winch rope on soft shackle contact without a pull, that is not sufficiently different from a soft shackle holding a tree strap or a soft shackle joining a winch line and a bridle to be of concern.

If the recovery setup is popping the winch line or tensioning and un-tensioning a lot, then it MIGHT be advisable to add a short Kinetic Recovery Rope (KRR) section to the system to avoid the shock loads and smooth out the pull. This must be weighted carefully as such a setup will store a lot more energy.

It might even just wind up the softshackle and spin it (rotating about the axis of the center line of the rope like a smoke ring) in whatever is on the other end. It might not be a problem at all. I am going to have to try that....

I don't see rope on rope contact as a possible issue without bad luck and poor recoverymanship (is that a word).
Click to expand...

When people are alone and do a recovery it is hard to watch things and in general people stay away from the area between the anchor and load. If you are pulling people over rocks there can be a lot of loading and unloading. In recovery I usually only use a pulley for change of direction. The pulls are not always smooth and consistent. It seems like the line could come of the ring, then you would have to reload the system to get it to stay on the ring. That may be difficult if you are alone. BUT my pulley is huge in comparison and lighter alternative seems nice.
 
Metcalf

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
MOguy said:
When people are alone and do a recovery it is hard to watch things and in general people stay away from the area between the anchor and load. If you are pulling people over rocks there can be a lot of loading and unloading. In recovery I usually only use a pulley for change of direction. The pulls are not always smooth and consistent. It seems like the line could come of the ring, then you would have to reload the system to get it to stay on the ring. That may be difficult if you are alone. BUT my pulley is huge in comparison and lighter alternative seems nice.
Click to expand...

You can fix the issue of the line being able to come out with a small velcro strap and a small wood/plastic block secured to the soft shackle to 'trap' the working line in the aluminum ring.
 
M

MartinDWhite

New member
Looks like maxtraxx is introducing a version of this same concept early next year. They just posted one on their Instagram called the "Maxtraxx Winch Ring".
 
MOguy

MOguy

Explorer
Metcalf said:
You can fix the issue of the line being able to come out with a small velcro strap and a small wood/plastic block secured to the soft shackle to 'trap' the working line in the aluminum ring.
Click to expand...

If you have to use other items to fix it then what good is it? So to use this you need some Velcro and a small piece of wood or plastic?

I really hope nobody would ever use a small piece of Velcro and wood block for recovery of something as heavy as a vehicle.

I am really trying to be open minded but I think this is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen suggested to use for recovery.

I would suggest this as a better option.

warn.JPG
 
MOguy

MOguy

Explorer
Metcalf said:
I'm sorry, but that is SILLY expensive, especially when you figure in the need for the soft shackle.
Click to expand...

I am thinking it is worse than silly, It seems dangerous. Rope to rope contact could lead to a catastrophic incident. You want to minimize the possibility of this with a piece of Velcro and a chunk of wood or plastic. That is crazy.
 
Last edited:
roving1

roving1

Well-known member
I just don't get why you would even want to go down this path. I'd love to see that caked with abrasive muck and see how 'unharmed' the soft shackle would be after.

It also seems like debris could score the inside of something as soft as aluminum and very quickly damage the soft shackle.

Also trying to remain open minded but everything in my head is screaming this is stupid.
 
V

Vinman

Observer
I remember when I first heard about synthetic rope and told others in our local Jeep club about it and it was unbelievable how many people said it would never work in our enviroment, caked with mud, dragging through water then freezing etc.
I was the first guy in our club to try it and shortly after the others saw me unspooling a bunch of rope and tossing it up a hill instead of dragging steel cable, using it repeatedly with no failures etc. they accepted it to the point at I bought 1000’ bulk to make ropes and it was gone within a week.
There are lots of things that shouldn’t work but flat out do.

My point is don’t discredit a new product on the premise that it’ll never work. If everybody did that e sport would never make any progress.
 
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