Next generation snatch block

[Vinman]

I keep hearing people say that the UV rays destroy synthetic winch line but for the life of me I cannot understand how it can survive in the marine environment being out in direct sunlight day in and day out.
I honestly think people see the line colour quickly fade and assume it’s degrading badly.

 

[Howard70]

I keep hearing people say that the UV rays destroy synthetic winch line but for the life of me I cannot understand how it can survive in the marine environment being out in direct sunlight day in and day out.
I honestly think people see the line colour quickly fade and assume it’s degrading badly.

Most commercial marine applications use very thick line with initial strength much greater than needed. As the line degrades enough strength remains. Here is a link to data-based analysis of synthetic lines and UV degradation posted by Factor 55. Note that the most resistant tested lost 20% of initial strength after 450 hours of "Accelerated Weathering per ISO 4892-2." If you want to determine how "Accelerated Weathering..." relates to actual time in the sun you can read this (better be patient!). I'm convinced that synthetics degrade much faster than wire rope. However, their other advantages outweigh the degradation disadvantage for my applications. It is also possible to reduce the UV exposure by running the synthetic winch line through enough tubular webbing to cover the outer wrap of the line on the drum of the winch (also helps as a chafe guard).

Howard

 

[MOguy]

Most commercial marine applications use very thick line with initial strength much greater than needed. As the line degrades enough strength remains. Here is a link to data-based analysis of synthetic lines and UV degradation posted by Factor 55. Note that the most resistant tested lost 20% of initial strength after 450 hours of "Accelerated Weathering per ISO 4892-2." If you want to determine how "Accelerated Weathering..." relates to actual time in the sun you can read this (better be patient!). I'm convinced that synthetics degrade much faster than wire rope. However, their other advantages outweigh the degradation disadvantage for my applications. It is also possible to reduce the UV exposure by running the synthetic winch line through enough tubular webbing to cover the outer wrap of the line on the drum of the winch (also helps as a chafe guard).

Howard

I know more and more are using rope for their winch, I just have issues with it.

I just can't get past rolling up a dirty, gritty, wet rope back onto a winch, it is just not going to happen with me. If I saw it frayed or fuzzy, faded or whatever I would assume it has issues. I may be over cautious. I work for a SAR organization and ropes here are dealt with in very certain manner. I know there are different types of ropes for different situations, but none would be treated the way I treat my winch cable.

As far as soft shackles? You can clean them, let them dry and pack them so they can be protected, same with recovery straps but you can't do that with a winch rope.

I just can't come to terms with using a rope with a winch in the environment and the way I use my cable.

 

[Howard70]

.I just can't come to terms with using a rope with a winch in the environment and the way I use my cable.

That makes perfect sense to me. You're better served by wire rope while I feel better served by some synthetic lines. There's no reason all of us ought to use the same line. Diversity works.

Howard

 

[Metcalf]

I know more and more are using rope for their winch, I just have issues with it.

I just can't get past rolling up a dirty, gritty, wet rope back onto a winch, it is just not going to happen with me. If I saw it frayed or fuzzy, faded or whatever I would assume it has issues. I may be over cautious. I work for a SAR organization and ropes here are dealt with in very certain manner. I know there are different types of ropes for different situations, but none would be treated the way I treat my winch cable.

As far as soft shackles? You can clean them, let them dry and pack them so they can be protected, same with recovery straps but you can't do that with a winch rope.

I just can't come to terms with using a rope with a winch in the environment and the way I use my cable.

Comfort comes with experience. I've been using synthetic winch rope for a few decades now. In general, you are overthinking it. I purposefully abuse my winch line with minimal care, cleaning, and thought to rigging dangers to test the limits
It just keeps coming back for more. You honestly have to try pretty hard to get it to fail. Yes, you can't pull over razor blades like you can with steel cable. I've seen a drastic decrease in winching related injuries and issues with synthetic vs wire.

The breaking strength on most 3/8 dynemma winch line is typically about 19-21k depending on brand. A 5/16 steel cable is only rated for a MBS of about 9800lbs in perfect condition from many winch manufacturers.

There are Dyneema based products with a full length cover that protect the core if that would make you feel better.

Do you replace your steel cable whenever it gets a kink or broken strand?

 

[MOguy]

Comfort comes with experience. I've been using synthetic winch rope for a few decades now. In general, you are overthinking it. I purposefully abuse my winch line with minimal care, cleaning, and thought to rigging dangers to test the limits
It just keeps coming back for more. You honestly have to try pretty hard to get it to fail. Yes, you can't pull over razor blades like you can with steel cable. I've seen a drastic decrease in winching related injuries and issues with synthetic vs wire.

The breaking strength on most 3/8 dynemma winch line is typically about 19-21k depending on brand. A 5/16 steel cable is only rated for a MBS of about 9800lbs in perfect condition from many winch manufacturers.

There are Dyneema based products with a full length cover that protect the core if that would make you feel better.

Do you replace your steel cable whenever it gets a kink or broken strand?

I have no broken strands but one pinched spot and the cable is almost 18 years old. Some of us take longer to come around than others. I suppose someday I could be rolling down the trial with a rope on my winch. But I still just can't except the idea of a wet, muddy, gritty rope rolled up on my winch.

When I first started reading this post I was skeptical about the "next generation snatch block" but not so much any more.

 

[CanucksRedRocket]

I have no broken strands but one pinched spot and the cable is almost 18 years old. Some of us take longer to come around than others. I suppose someday I could be rolling down the trial with a rope on my winch. But I still just can't except the idea of a wet, muddy, gritty rope rolled up on my winch.

When I first started reading this post I was skeptical about the "next generation snatch block" but not so much any more.

I've lived in far too many areas where RUST is something that comes on new cars lol. So i can't stand the idea of a wet muddy cable being coiled back up on a winch lol. Funny how life works eh. After learning about synthetic ropes from an old boss ( former fisherman) i decided that was the way to go for any winch i get in the future, but for my buddy that runs a bunch of tow trucks, he prefer wire as he deals with alot of harsh winching enviroments ( rocky, busted metal, gaurd rails etc) Im just glad we finally have options to choose from. the new gen snatch block i think is awesome, but i know the standard bearing snatch block will never disappear. they both have appropriate uses

 

[MOguy]

I've lived in far too many areas where RUST is something that comes on new cars lol. So i can't stand the idea of a wet muddy cable being coiled back up on a winch lol. Funny how life works eh. After learning about synthetic ropes from an old boss ( former fisherman) i decided that was the way to go for any winch i get in the future, but for my buddy that runs a bunch of tow trucks, he prefer wire as he deals with alot of harsh winching enviroments ( rocky, busted metal, gaurd rails etc) Im just glad we finally have options to choose from. the new gen snatch block i think is awesome, but i know the standard bearing snatch block will never disappear. they both have appropriate uses

when I first got my winch I was worried about rust on the cable. I'd wipe it down with oil almost every time I went out. That lasted about a year since then I haven't even cleaned it other than occasionally wiping it down with a dry rag when I re-spool it. My cable has not rusted at all. I suppose some cable could have rust problems.

 

[roving1]

You’ve never had to pull sideways? Must be nice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never and always are not the same thing

 

[roving1]

Why is that? The ring generally rotates with the traveling end of the rope. That rotation load is spread out over the entire bearing surface of the ID chamfer of the ring.
If you use the 'improved' soft shackle design, that bearing surface is also spread out over both legs.

I still haven't seen any evidence of wear in this system in my testing, let alone anything that would be considered dangerous, in my testing.

Possibly true.

I have only seen it tested in ridiculously clean environments with no mud or grit on anything.

Maybe even that would have no effect. But that is how people are testing it.

 

[Swede.]

Interesting and cool design for sure. But I like how they market it like 'lighter and stronger than a traditional snatch block' but the first review clearly show it to be heavier than a Warn block!

 

[Vinman]

The ring weighs less than 11 ozs, a Warn snatch block is over 7 lbs if I remember correctly.

 

[Metcalf]

Interesting and cool design for sure. But I like how they market it like 'lighter and stronger than a traditional snatch block' but the first review clearly show it to be heavier than a Warn block!

Um, no.

My snatch ring with soft shackle and my anti-tip block is ~1lb ( 22K rated 100K+ SAFE fail )



My old steel snatch block and a steel shackle is 7lb+



I can carry 3-4 complete units which will allow more options for complex rigging and STILL be less than 50% the weight of a SINGLE traditional snatch block.

 

[ntsqd]

15+ Years ago I tested some 1/4" Amsteel Blue to deliberate failure. At the time it was by far the easiest to get, and could be bought in one foot increments. We used a '75 CC SRW BBC powered Service bed truck for the anchor and an 8274 on the front of a 'ton'd' 400ci SBC powered FJ40 to pull on it. A single 1/4" line pulled that truck, in park and with the p-brake on while parked on pavement, during every pull. I was mostly curious to see if I could be comfortable spooling that size line onto a Warn M8 because it's strength numbers were almost there and the size difference would mean more line length on the drum (I estimated almost 1/2 again more).

Along the way we also tested quick splicing techniques and knots as emergency field fixes for a snapped line. The Cliff's Notes on knots in a winch line is that no known knot (almost 40 years rock climber) is good enough, they will all fail. Failure appears to be heat induced by the constricting of the line thru the knot. The good news is that I found a fast and simple, can be tool-less, splicing method. Takes longer to describe than to do.

Which leads me to a question; any sign of the soft clevis "polishing" where the 'pulley' spins on it? That was the first sign of heat in my testing. Looks more like its gotten hot enough locally to very slightly melt the surface and give it a sheen (much like flaming the edge of a piece of acrylic to get that last bit of clarity) than an abrasive type polishing. If that's not happening, or if it is happening at a very, very slow rate (easy enough to carry spares & retire soft shackles as needed) then this looks very promising.

 

[Metcalf]

15+ Years ago I tested some 1/4" Amsteel Blue to deliberate failure. At the time it was by far the easiest to get, and could be bought in one foot increments. We used a '75 CC SRW BBC powered Service bed truck for the anchor and an 8274 on the front of a 'ton'd' 400ci SBC powered FJ40 to pull on it. A single 1/4" line pulled that truck, in park and with the p-brake on while parked on pavement, during every pull. I was mostly curious to see if I could be comfortable spooling that size line onto a Warn M8 because it's strength numbers were almost there and the size difference would mean more line length on the drum (I estimated almost 1/2 again more).

Along the way we also tested quick splicing techniques and knots as emergency field fixes for a snapped line. The Cliff's Notes on knots in a winch line is that no known knot (almost 40 years rock climber) is good enough, they will all fail. Failure appears to be heat induced by the constricting of the line thru the knot. The good news is that I found a fast and simple, can be tool-less, splicing method. Takes longer to describe than to do.

Which leads me to a question; any sign of the soft clevis "polishing" where the 'pulley' spins on it? That was the first sign of heat in my testing. Looks more like its gotten hot enough locally to very slightly melt the surface and give it a sheen (much like flaming the edge of a piece of acrylic to get that last bit of clarity) than an abrasive type polishing. If that's not happening, or if it is happening at a very, very slow rate (easy enough to carry spares & retire soft shackles as needed) then this looks very promising.

I haven't seen any yet. I can't really even get the ring to be warm to the touch running it with an 8274 winch.

In my opinion, everything has a service life. Sampson Rope has some very good info on when ropes should be retired. On the soft shackles that I started producing, I made sure the long chafe guard is removable for 3 reasons.

1- It allows inspection of the actual rope fibers ( and cleaning )
2- The chafe guard can be replaced when damaged for a lower cost than the expensive dyneema line.
3- It is best to be able to remove the chafe guard when using the soft shackle with a snatch ring, and my anti-tip block, to give the best coefficient of friction of the UHMWPE fibers.