Off-Road Lighting Types

[Hilldweller]

That's actually a common misconception...yellow/amber do not provide any benefit over white light in fog....

True dat.

There are some situations where selective yellow helps but there's really no reason for our community to go out and get them unless they like them.
Daniel Stern has a good article about it. http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/light_color/light_color.html

 

[Scoutn79]

That's actually a common misconception...yellow/amber do not provide any benefit over white light in fog. As a matter of fact, producers of fog lamps have known this since at least 1938! Here's a good explanation:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99xx4.htm

...the important thing is the beam pattern and mounting height. Ideally, you want 18" or lower. I still prefer a yellow fog, but that's more to *BE* seen - white light and white-out conditions kind of blend together. The yellow does help you stand out a bit to other traffic.

While that may be true for fog it isn't true for blizzards. Like I mentioned before we don't get to much fog here but snow storms are a different animal all together and require a amber lens. It really depends on what you think you are going to be driving in, fog or snow, and get the appropriate lens.

Darrell

 

[Hilldweller]

While that may be true for fog it isn't true for blizzards. Like I mentioned before we don't get to much fog here but snow storms are a different animal all together and require a amber lens. It really depends on what you think you are going to be driving in, fog or snow, and get the appropriate lens.

Darrell

http://www.lightingresearch.org/programs/transportation/pdf/SAE/2001-01-0320.pdf

 

[Scoutn79]

http://www.lightingresearch.org/programs/transportation/pdf/SAE/2001-01-0320.pdf

I skimmed the data and basically it says the white light works just as well as yellow in blizzards...WRONG. Light snowfall sure...a blizzard no. And to be clear I am talking about driving in the dark not just turning on the lights at dusk when there is some ambient light.
Real world experience tells me differently. I drove from Albuquerque almost to Flagstaff in a blizzard in my Mustang running ONLY the parking lights ( it has 4 large parking lights)...which are amber. With the headlights, yes on low, I could not see the road at all from the reflection. With the headlights off and only parking lights on I could see the road just fine...you can't argue with that.
It is a long proven fact that the white headlights light up the snow flakes and you tend to focus on the blowing/swirling snow and can cause people to become dizzy from focusing on the prominent flakes right in front of your headlights blowing around and the brightness of the snow is blinding. The yellow light does not do this. This is exactly why I run a set of amber lens fog lights on my truck... I will actually run with the headlights in a snowstorm heading back to camp after dark and switch to fogs on just to see how much farther and easier I can see with the amber lens....It is amazing. Every Elk season I am proven right.
If I had never lived in snow country and was reading this info I might believe it.

I respectfully disagree. Not knowing the amount of snow they were testing in doesn't help.

Darrell

 

[Hilldweller]

As Mister Subjective, I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I've tinted lights to selective yellow in the past and still have that set on my shelf ----- I'll mount them on the PW eventually.
I'm a selective yellow fanboy.
There just isn't any good data to back up our observations yet.

 

[stevo]

Off-road lights

Wow! I guess I really am old! LEDs, HIDs...I run two lamps: CibieOscar+ 190s about grill high (off-road), one clear fog and one driving, no pencil beams. spaced about 12" apart on the same circuit. Works for me. I go slow odd-road (especially at night.)
Cheers, Stevo

 

[4x4junkie]

The problem with LED lighting is that it looks brighter than it is. When people are subjected to acuity tests using LED lighting, they need more of it to perform at halogen light levels.


Quote from a DVN analysis of a technical paper presented in 2011 at the International Symposium on Automotive Lighting



LED has its place but is still evolving.

Is there a link to more info on that?
I'd be curious what the CCT of the LED lights they tested was (most likely something 5000°K or higher I'll bet).

 

[sargeek]

IMO - the upgrade to vehicle lighting is this order:
1) Upgrade the OEM Headlights (if possible, and skip the HID conversions)
2) Install quality fog lights mounted low and wide on the bumper. Ideally the should mounted below the bumper, but on 4x4's they are exposed to damage in this area. They should be installed to come on with parking lights, or parking lights/low beams. Running parking lights/fog lights only may be illegal in some areas, but can make the difference in super thick fog/snow. Yellow/Clear are the best colors for the vehicle operator. Amber fogs are great to use to assist other motorists in seeing your vehicle. (I think the dark amber color reduces the intensity some, so in thick fog they seem more effective) To my knowlege their are no HID or LED fog lights on the market that are true fog lights.
3) The next install is up to the vehicle and driver and would be a "Flood Lights or Cornering Lights" or "Driving Lights or Euro-Beam". Flood lights/Cornerings are great for slowish off road trail rides and illuminate obsticals infront of the vehicles. The beam floods everything in the path. These lights should be wired to operate in conjunction with the brights on thhe vehicle (I like to install a three way switch "On with Brights"; "OFF"; "On" - When the vehicle is in motion you should be able to kill your brights and auxiliary lights in one motion.) These can come in any type of bulb; LED, HID or Halogen. Driving Lights are auxiliary high beams that reinforce what the high beams do, cover the road from shoulder to shoulder out. If you purchase a quality driving light, you should not be able to overdrive it in the average 4x4.These lights can be LED, HID or Halogen. Another thought is to mount these Austrailian Style with 1 cornering light and 1 driving light on the grill guard.
4) The last auxiliary light one could possible use would be spot lights or pencil beams. These are super narrow spot lights that throw their light incredible far down the road. At the distance they are projecting the super narrow beam that will cover the road should to shoulder. With todays technology, I think HID and Halogen are the best and are generally mounted high on the bumper or the roof for maximum reach.

 

[Hilldweller]

Is there a link to more info on that?
I'd be curious what the CCT of the LED lights they tested was (most likely something 5000°K or higher I'll bet).

You have to pay for full reports:
http://www.drivingvisionnews.com/reports/all-reports?report=2011
But there's quite a bit you can browse on for free.

...To my knowlege their are no HID or LED fog lights on the market that are true fog lights...

http://www.jwspeaker.com/other/the-new-model-6145-6150-led-fog-lights

 

[sargeek]

Thanks Hilldweller - I had not trolled through the JW Speaker website - The seem to be on the cutting edge of LED lighting. I stand corrected.

 

[Hilldweller]

Thanks Hilldweller - I had not trolled through the JW Speaker website - The seem to be on the cutting edge of LED lighting. I stand corrected.

They're good but there's better coming. LEDs got a bumpy start but are picking up speed.

 

[Hilldweller]

Curious. Nice tip.
-
I might try one of these mounted in the middle hole of my front bumper...
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200578620_200578620

The link didn't open for me the first time I tried it but I got it now.

I guess that thing would work okay.
But if you mounted a pair of Optilux 4" HIDs, you'd get 50% more lumens (by all of their claims anyhow), spend less money, consume 2 watts less, see farther, etc...

Consumers like the LED lightbars because they're all Star Wars chic. They're "in" right now. And, I admit, I like them for some applications.
Just not usually on the front of a truck that's used on the road.

 

[Oman4x4]

The problem with LED lighting is that it looks brighter than it is. When people are subjected to acuity tests using LED lighting, they need more of it to perform at halogen light levels.


Quote from a DVN analysis of a technical paper presented in 2011 at the International Symposium on Automotive Lighting

"At higher luminance and adaptation level the LED lamps generate relatively greater subjective brightness impression. For the state-of-the-art high performance LED headlamps (low beam with 1,000 Lm on the road and 70 Lx/43,750 cd peak intensity), the perceived brightness is 20% better. For today's existing lower performing LED lamps (500 Lm in the beam and 35 Lx/21,875 cd peak intensity) the better brightness perception is only 10%. Detection distance is a different story: LED threshold detection appears to be significantly poorer than halogen. 30% more illumination is needed to detect objects inside or outside the light pattern at about 50 m distance."

LED has its place but is still evolving.

That's okay - I have more than 30% more illumination

The real advantage to LED's is the reduced power consumption. I would not be able to have anywhere near the amount of light output in Halogen on the stock alternator.

I have a Rigid Industries 50" LED Lightbar on top, JW Speaker Headlights, Rigid Industries dual 10" Amber lightbars in the bumper, DRL lightbars in the corners, and LED fog and LED driving lights that are road legal. There's no shortage of light output. The dual amber lights DO help in the dusty and foggy situations (I would assume snow too, but we don't get much of that here!) BUT as the amber lights put out less light than white light, you need quite a bit of it. I originally had one, and it was good but not great. Two is working better. They're also nice when everything is turned on to add a bit of warmth to the very white light of the LEDs.

I'm very happy with this setup now.

 

[Oman4x4]

The link didn't open for me the first time I tried it but I got it now.

I guess that thing would work okay.
But if you mounted a pair of Optilux 4" HIDs, you'd get 50% more lumens (by all of their claims anyhow), spend less money, consume 2 watts less, see farther, etc...

Consumers like the LED lightbars because they're all Star Wars chic. They're "in" right now. And, I admit, I like them for some applications.
Just not usually on the front of a truck that's used on the road.

A lot of people are buying the copy LED lightbars because they're the "in" thing - but they're the "in" thing because if you have a real one they DO work. Stick with Rigid Industries or VisionX - and you won't be disappointed. The copies are nothing special and you're better off saving your money for the real thing later.

 

[Hilldweller]

That's okay - I have more than 30% more illumination
....

The real advantage to LED's is the reduced power consumption....

I agree ---- also the small package lends itself to abundant mounting options. And they're extremely tough.
I still recommend LEDs for many applications. They're just not the universal first choice for everything.
Yet.