Oil and Oil Filter Suggestions?

[erod]

Does anyone have any advice on oil and oil filter brands, synthetic, or not, etc? After how many miles do you change your oil, and does it matter depending on the brand, viscosity, etc? I have a 02" Taco with a super charger and while I always run premium gas I have never really settled on one oil and filter. Thanks for any input!

 

[Robthebrit]

I run amsoil in one of my mogs and in my cummins dodge, its not cheap but its good stuff. The dodge gets changed about every 7500 miles and the mog once a year or so (the hubs sometimes more often depending on whether its been through water or not). I run the diesel version of the oil but they have a wide selection of weights, light and heavy duty for gas and diesels.

In my big mog I run Conklin Convoy para synthetic in the engine, I change the oil about every 15000 and thats in a big diesel, you could probably get more from a gas engne. This is heavy duty engine oil and is recommended by cummins, cat, detroit etc. I think the same oil is good for gas and diesel engines.

Rob

 

[DaveInDenver]

Does anyone have any advice on oil and oil filter brands, synthetic, or not, etc? After how many miles do you change your oil, and does it matter depending on the brand, viscosity, etc?

That's sort of like asking about politics and religon...

I use Toyota filters, the 90915-YZZG1 for my 22R-E. These are pretty decent filters, but not the end all, be all. Stick with good ones, no need to spend boat loads of money on them, tho. WIX (who makes NAPA's), Purolator, AC-Delco, etc. BTW, Toyota filters made in North America are made by Purolator.

For the first 184K miles of my truck's life it got Castrol Syntec 10W-30 (winter) or 10W-40 (summer), but the last two changes I went with Castrol High Mileage and it does seem to have reduced the puff of smoke at start-up, I'm pretty sure my valve guides are shot and I'm just putting off the inevitable. I follow a relaxed ~3000 mile interval. As far as weight, use what your book tells you as a guide. Most likely if you have a newer truck it'll say 5W-30 and that's as good as any. I would not stray too far from that, probably 10W-30 in the summer depending on how hot it gets for you. In the winter I run 10W-30 and sometimes even 5W-30 because sometimes I'll leave my truck at a trailhead overnight and that means the morning starts can be subzero cold.

More so than worrying about brands, dino vs. synthetic, which this or that, stick to a good interval and use decent oil. It's also best that you don't change oil brands too much, the additives can sometimes react.

 

[Dave Bennett]

I have my oil (1GR-FE) changed per factory specs at the dealership every 5,000 miles. Toyota filters and dino oil for me.

 

[erod]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice! Cheers!

 

[Lost Canadian]

I use German made Castrol Syntec 0W-30 year round. Used oil analysis tests from users have consistently shown that engine wear indicators (metals found in used oil) are lower when using this oil then when using Mobil 1, Amsoil, and many others. Castrol Syntec 0w-30 which is commonly referred to as "German Castrol" is one of the very few true synthetics out there unlike Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, and the other US made Castrol Syntec weights. What does true synthetic mean, well it means its base stock is made from PAO/Esters, not Group III (which starts off as dino oil).

Other examples of true synthetic oils are Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple. Mobil 1 use to be a true synthetic but they have recently changed their formula to the cheaper group III base stock, which is made from dino bones. How come they can call them sythetic oils then you ask. Well Penzoil a few years back won a court case which has allowed themselves as well as other companies to call what is referred to as 'hydro cracked' dino oil a "synthetic" in the US.

Don't be fooled however by the label they are not true synthetics and they do not protect like a true synthetic as used oil analysis tests have shown over and over again.

Also somthing to be aware of, in the case of Mobil 1 they never reduced the price of their oil after they cheapened their formula. So if you are going to go with a synthetic and have the choice between Mobil 1, or Amsoil, German Castrol Syntec or Redline go with the later three.

Don't get me wrong, all of the so called synthetics like M1, Pennzoil etc. are good oils but if you are willing and are going to pay the hefty premium to get into a synthetic then you might as well get your moneys worth and get the best.

As far as putting a 0w-30 weight synthetic oil in your truck like the German Castrol you may be thinking well isn't it thin and watery? The answer to that myth is no! At cold temps, the 0w weight correlates to cold cranking viscosity. That means an oil like German Castrol 0w-30 will begin to flow and will protect quicker at cold start up temps. (Which is a good thing!) but as the engine reaches normal operating temps, the oil will not thin out any more then a standard 30 weight oil and in the case of the German Castrol 0w-30 it is actually close to a 40 weight. German castrol has tested to be one of the thickest 30 weight oils out there. You may be wondering well why don't companies like Toyota use 0w-30 as the recommended weight. The reason is when you use standard dino oil (which most people do) the oil has to have a lot of additives added to it to allow it to work through a range viscosities like 0 to 30. The bigger the gap in the top and bottom numbers the more additives need to be added. Over time the additives wear off and the oil becomes less stable and less effective at maintaining a proper viscosity which means it doesn't protect like it did when new. With a synthetic the viscosity range can be widened and will continue to protect for a long time after the additives in standard dino oil would have worn off.

As for oil filters the two best are Mobil 1 and K&N both are made by Champion labs. WIX, Purolator, and Toyota brand are also pretty good are 1/3rd the cost, and do a decent job of filtering.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Castrol Syntec 0w-30 is one of the very few true synthetics out there unlike Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, and the other US made Castrol Syntec weights. What does true synthetic mean, well it means its base stock is made from PAO/Esters, not Group III (which starts off as dino oil).

I'm far, far, far from a chemical guy, so I'm just throwing some things out from materials class. My understanding is that the oil that results from hydroisomerized petroleum is fundamentally different from the base oil. I guess it depends on what you define as a synthetic. When they hydrocrack the base petroleum, they reconstruct a new molecule that no longer is structured like the original oil. So in that way they have made a new molecule, just using petroleum rather than paraffin as the starting point. It's not like Group I & II, where the oil is only refined to make it suitable for lubrication.

PAO can produce a better lubricant, but just being Group IV (or V for that matter) does not guarantee better performance. Group II oil is commonly used to lube generating turbines, for example. My main thought is to use good quality oil and just looking that the base stock can't tell you the whole story.

 

[Lost Canadian]

I'm not going to lie I'm no expert either, far from it, but I have read quite a bit on the subject, some of what I wrote above and what is writen below is borrowed from texts but this isn't a paper so I'm not going to be completing a bibliography. He he.

So from all the info I have gathered and gone through group III's oils are as good as it gets as far as mineral oil stocks are concerned but they are still considered just a very highly refined mineral oil with most of the impure "dino bones" removed. This does allow the oil to yield a much greater natural viscosity range for normal temps, but compared to a base stock like a PAO in very cold or very warm temps they do not perform exceptionally well. Most oils that use Group III's as a base do offer very good protection and molecular uniformity, but to achieve the same effects as a PAO they still require far more additives to obtain their viscosity range. Problem with that is many of the additive packages which are mixed into the oil are relied upon to protect at the extreme ends of the viscosity range. Now that's great when the oil is fairly new but what happens is as the oil is used the additives break down and are consumed, the oil then becomes less effective at providing the variable viscosity range. Without the additive package to improve the oil viscosity range the oil becomes less effective at protecting the engine.

So in the case of very cold temps if the oil does not have the ability to pump through the engine fast enough you could see a dramatic increase in engine wear, as 75% of all engine wear occurs prior to the engine reaching optimal operating temps. On average a PAO or diester base has a viscosity of about 1/3rd that of mineral oil group I,II, or II meaning that a POA or diester will pump through your engine 3 times better then a mineral oil stock which means faster protection and reduced wear.

At the other end of the spectrum we have high temps. With any mineral oil base whether it be group I, II, or III the oil companies have to add what are known as viscosity index improvers (VII's). These do nothing to improve the oils lubricating properties but what they do do is slow the flow of oil as it heats up. This is accomplished by the VII molecule unwinding when heated which in turn impedes the ability of the oil to flow preventing it from thinning out too much. Again problem with this is that the VII's are fragile and break down, as they do the oil looses its ability to hold it's high temperature viscosity again reducing the oils ability to protect the engine. Because PAO bases are engineered they contain and need very little VII's to maintain viscosity ranges which means they will last longer and protect better then a group I, II, or III which relies more heavily on VII's and makes them susceptible to radical viscosity changes as the oil ages.

Because we as consumers don't know what, how much, or how long the additive packages last or maintain an efficiant level in different group III oils, if you're going to spend the money you might as well spend the money on a product that starts life as PAO which does not need to rely on additives to provide a varied viscosity range. Of course you could spend the money on getting oil analysis tests done every so often to determine the amount of additives left in your oil but you'll be looking at spending close to $30 a pop to have it done. For that much again I would just as soon get a product that does not need to rely on additives to provide a varied range of viscosity.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, and the other US made Castrol Syntec weights. What does true synthetic mean, well it means its base stock is made from PAO/Esters, not Group III (which starts off as dino oil).

Mobil 1 use to be a true synthetic but they have recently changed their formula to the cheaper group III base stock, which is made from dino bones. How come they can call them synthetic oils then you ask. Well Penzoil a few years back won a court case which has allowed themselves as well as other companies to call what is referred to as 'hydro cracked' dino oil a "synthetic" in the US.

Don't be fooled however by the label they are not true synthetics and they do not protect like a true synthetic as used oil analysis tests have shown over and over again.




The bigger the gap in the top and bottom numbers the more additives need to be added. Over time the additives wear off and the oil becomes less stable and less effective at maintaining a proper viscosity which means it doesn’t protect like it did when new. With a synthetic the viscosity range can be widened and will continue to protect for a long time after the additives in standard dino oil would have worn off.

As for oil filters the two best are Mobil 1 and K&N both are made by Champion labs. WIX, Purolator, and Toyota brand are also pretty good are 1/3rd the cost, and do a decent job of filtering.

Very informative and now I feel cheated as I have been using Mobile1 For the last few years in my Tow rig.

Here is a site where they guy has been testing oil filters independently and does back up what LC stated on the filters. http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

The short is Fram filters are pretty low on the quality list. I use the Toyota filters in my Toyota's. I use the A/C Delco filters in my GM. I found the Bosch filters for my Suburban are EXACTLY the same filter as the A/C. Same manufacture marks, you can look in through the holes and the seal is the same color and shape, The filter media is the same length and appears to be the same media. Badge engineered part. However the filter Bosch makes from my Toyota is not as good of quality as the Toyota. It has a issue with drain back that the stock Toyota filter doesn't.

10w40 is the Devil in Dino oils. It is so bad that some manufactures (like GM on my suburban) will void the warranty on the engine if you use 10w40 oils. 10w40 is 10w30 with thickening addatives.....primarily paraffin wax. It does a real number on the rings. The waxes collect and jam the rings either causing excessive blow by or even worse don't let the rings float and they will jam and start causing accelerated wear on the cylinder walls. HOW it has become so popular I don't know. I think its lack of knowledge. I run what the manufacture recommends for normal driving. Primarily a 10w30 since the climate I live in is within its temperature range.


Wish we could get the German Castrol like you guys up north can get. First I have heard of it but after reading what you had to say it sounds like a product I would be happy with. I have one more oil change worth of M1. Guess I will run it. Still don't have the rings fully seated in my 22RE so one more change of 10w30 Castrol and figure out what synthetic to go with....I think my Amsoil distributor buddy finally will get mys cash. LOL I have been thinking of going with the remote double filter set up anyway. Guess its time. With the extended change intervals with how little I drive it will be once a year charges more for condensation contamination then miles.....I love living 3 miles from work.:xxrotflma

Actually next year I hope to be racking up a LOT of miles in that Toyota and Suburban. Hope to have the Airstream ready to travel by spring break and haul the family down to the Keys to warm up. The extended changes will be a nice piece of mind so I don't have to deal with a change mid trip.

 

[erod]

Thank you all very much for the info, I think I will have to read through it a couple times to understand it all as many of the terms used I am relatively unfamiliar with. Very, very informative stuff though, its amazing that over the years I thought as long as I changed my oil consistently and bought relatively good oil I had nothing to worry about. Unfortunately, as was stated before I don't think we get the German oil in MT, but maybe, I am looking into that today. Thanks again to all for your input. Cheers!

 

[erod]

This has been an informative thread for sure! I ended up sticking with the Castrol Syntech 5W-30 and the WIX filter. After looking around, actually at the Bumper to Bumper right down the street, I did find AMSoil and Mobile 1 0W-30 however it was like $7-9 a Qt. vs. $3.89 for the Castrol. The K&N filter is $12 compared to the WIX @ $5.39. For me the price really made a difference. I really appreciate everyone's input, I learn something new all the time on this forum!

 

[DaveInDenver]

This has been an informative thread for sure! I ended up sticking with the Castrol Syntech 5W-30 and the WIX filter. For me the price really made a difference. I really appreciate everyone's input, I learn something new all the time on this forum!

That is a perfectly fine combination. Change the oil and filter at decent intervals and you will get many miles from your truck. For the price savings you can change your oil at least twice as often. Even using the highest tech oil, frequent changes is the main key to long life. The best oils can't magically keep the lubrication system completely free of metal from wear, unburnt fuel, sludge, etc. That stuff clogs the filter and generally breaks down the oil. Yes, good oil can minimize stuff like sludge and wear, but it can't completely eliminate it. So in the end you either change the oil often or you spend more up front, the end result is probably a wash economically. Lots of Toyota engines go 300K+ on cheap Quaker State and Fram filters, the WIX and Syntec combo is head and shoulders better than that.

 

[Lost Canadian]

This has been an informative thread for sure! I ended up sticking with the Castrol Syntech 5W-30 and the WIX filter. After looking around, actually at the Bumper to Bumper right down the street, I did find AMSoil and Mobile 1 0W-30 however it was like $7-9 a Qt. vs. $3.89 for the Castrol. The K&N filter is $12 compared to the WIX @ $5.39. For me the price really made a difference. I really appreciate everyone's input, I learn something new all the time on this forum!

Yeah for that price difference the Castrol is a great deal, the stores in my area have only a $1-$2 difference beteen PAO oils and group III's so for that little of difference I just go with the what I feel is better. If they started selling the group III oils at half the price of the PAO's I would have no issue making the switch. I totally agree with Dave as well, if you're going to change your oil fequently enough then any so called synthetic will be good, especially if you can find one at half the price of others. Just be sure to stick to regular change intervals if you go with a group III, don't try and push the oil longer unless you've had a used oil analysis test done that shows you can, you'd be surprised at how little additive can be found left in certain oils after only 3000-5000 miles.

What is 'bull' with Mobil is that they are still selling M1 at a equal price point to Amsoil and some of the other PAO oils. They should at least drop the price a little. Amsoil and M1 use to be on level playing fields as they both used the more expensive PAO as the base but since M1 changed to a cheaper group III mineral you would think they would have adjusted their price accordingly. What's ironic about all this is that it was Mobil who sued Penzoil a few years back because Penzoil was the first to use a group III mineral as a base and call it synthetic. Mobil fought tooth and nail proclaiming that Penzoil was misleading its consumers and was using dishonest marketing practices. In the end Penzoil won the case and was allowed to use the term 'synthetic' for its group III oils, now only a few years later Mobil has gone and done a 180 and is using group III oils as the base stock in their synthetic, I just shake my head. I guess the reason they have not changed the price of their oil is because they plan to ride the wave of their past reputation and hope the average consumer doesn't get smart to what they have done to their formula. Shame shame if you ask me, that just reeks of corporate greed, but what can ya say, it's what many of us have come to expect of the oil companies.


Oh one last thing, there is one oil I know of that Canadians can get that's a great deal. It's called Esso XD-3 and they do make it in a 0w-30 and 10W-30 weight. It's a PAO oil that has tested very well and is a steal of a deal if you can get your hands on it, but there in lies the problem, it's very hard to find. Some esso gas stations will carry it, as will some walmarts. If any of the Canuks out there see it in a 0W-30 weight, I would get it! I've been looking but haven't had any such luck finding the right weight however. The only Esso XD-3 I have found is in a 15W-40 weight, but it is only $22 Can. for 5 liters, that's a super deal and a half. Consider that most 1 liter bottles of synthetic sell for around $7-9 Can. a piece, and you quickly see just how good of a deal it really is.