On Board Welders?

[madizell]

Well, although I have and carry on serious trips the Redi-Welder, and although I have used it on numerous occasions, including evening repairs during races in Oz, I have to say that the Redi-Welder is a pain in the butt to set up and use because it requires two batteries in series to yield 24V. On my rig, that requires disconnecting the vehicle from the dual batteries. It takes something like 10 minutes or so to set it up, and at least as much time to put all back together, but the big downside is the fact that once the vehicle is off line, the computer zeros out and I have to run the motor for 10 to 50 miles to reset all the operating parameters. Mine is EECIV, which is even more primitive than OBDII. If you can avoid rebooting your engine control computer, I would suggest it. It is true that this beats a long walk in the dark, but it is a royal pain to have to reset all performance issues just to make a weld.

The Premier Welder does not have this issue because it is a dedicated alternator/welder system. It also runs rods rather than wire feed. But, because the alternator is optimized for welding (high frequency output), it is not an optimal battery charger and for its rated amperage, does not support a winch as well as a standard automotive alternator.

So you have to choose which you prefer. If you have a 3 battery system where two are readily separated from the vehicle without loosing electrical continuity to the computer, perhaps the Redi-Welder is not a problem. I do prefer wire feed to stick welds for ease of use in the field under adverse conditions. Also, rods need to be kept dry, and flux core wire does not. MIG welding is simply easier to control in the field.

Both systems make really good welds. I am still running a rear main leaf welded on the trail in mid-winter with a Redi-Welder, and the weld not only looks good, but shows no contrary signs.

If you can afford to carry a real welding hood, take one along. The cheapo hood provided with the Redi-Welder is worse than a good pair of goggles. Being unable to clearly see your weld puddle is the single greatest detriment to good welding anywhere, and in the field, it just gets more important.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

On my rig, that requires disconnecting the vehicle from the dual batteries. It takes something like 10 minutes or so to set it up, and at least as much time to put all back together, but the big downside is the fact that once the vehicle is off line, the computer zeros out and I have to run the motor for 10 to 50 miles to reset all the operating parameters. Mine is EECIV, which is even more primitive than OBDII. If you can avoid rebooting your engine control computer, I would suggest it.

Sounds like your computer isn't programmed properly, and has too many adaptive values used to run? You should be able to reprogram it so that he base program works. This certainly shouldn't be a concern for most stock vehicles.

 

[ntsqd]

I've seen those units that plug a 9 volt battery into a power point specifically for the purpose of keeping the computer memory alive when disconnecting the battery(ies).

 

[DaveInDenver]

Sounds like your computer isn't programmed properly, and has too many adaptive values used to run? You should be able to reprogram it so that he base program works. This certainly shouldn't be a concern for most stock vehicles.

I think at least a few versions (probably ones before the mid 1990s) of the EEC-IV ECU don't have NVRAM and probably will lose their retained variables after some period of being disconnected from the battery. They would rely on a capacitor to power the parameter RAM. This is pretty common in the first generation or two of EFI systems, the EFI on my 22R-E does the same thing. The actual amount of time it will take is all over the board, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, but with early systems it's pretty likely that it will need to re-learn. The reason is that there aren't a lot a things it can control and so it can go into a default state and still run OK. Plus the government didn't mandate that emissions and economy information be retained for some period. OBD-II and modern systems are orders higher in complexity and so tend to use better ways to retain their variables that do not depend on being connected to a battery.

But that's also because when you take your OBD-II car into have an emissions test, the computer will barf up some stored amount of engine codes and if an error is detected in some period (say the last 100 starts) it will flag you for a deeper test or auto fail. If all it took to get around that was pulling the battery and reseting the computer, that would defeat the purpose of that law... So as a result newer computers actually store information into ROM. But like ntsqd says, a little memory retaining battery works just fine for our old junk. OTOH, since the stock profile is designed with specific assumptions, if you have hopped up the performance or might be using interrupter boxes to trick the ECU, the engine might run badly for a while until it adjusts to the non-stock cam, high flow injectors or whatever. The 'right' way is to rip the stock EFI system out and use an aftermarket, but I'd guess a lot of people do what I do and 'recalibrate' sensors to force the ECU do what you want.

 

[ntsqd]

[hijack]The eec-IV is a rather surprising ECU. What it was allowed to do is not all that it is capable of. There was a whole email list devoted to using this ECU to to run other engines or tweak them to run way outside what Ford ever figured an OE engine would do (NOx, artificial aspiration, etc.). The AL9 is the most cracked. What ever you want to run it on, it is possible. It may be a bunch of work, but it is possible. When I was last on that list there was a fellow in the early de-bugging stages of making one work on a originally non-EFI 3.5L Rover engine. Another used them on non-Ford 6 cylinder industrial engines as part of some project for his work. A friend on the PNW has one in his 5.0 powered Early Bronco. No big deal there, but how many of those installs have the OE cruise crontrol figured out and in place? His AL9 has the ability to drive the cruise control stepper motor & monitor all of the safety interrupts, so he figured it out and made it work.[/hijack]

 

[hoser]

Did you see this review?

http://www.parksoffroad.com/miscinstalls/welderreview/weldermain.htm

 

[DaveInDenver]

[hijack]The eec-IV is a rather surprising ECU. What it was allowed to do is not all that it is capable of.

The AL9 is the most cracked. What ever you want to run it on, it is possible. It may be a bunch of work, but it is possible.

Yeah, I know a bit about that. I was researching pulling the ECU from a Bronco and using it in my truck. I've heard of at least one person who was marginally successful in using an Explorer EFI controller to run a very much non-stock blown 22R-E (would that be a 22R-SE?). One advantage of the EEC-IV is that you can get 65mm and bigger throttle bodies from 5.0L engines, where a bored out 22R-E TB will be 55mm + ~4mm max. Even the TB from a 3VZ is only 62mm. Also with EEC-IV you don't need the AFM anymore, so you are less limited with the wider choice of MAF with bigger throats. Back to the original topic...

 

[Beowulf]

Did you see this review?

http://www.parksoffroad.com/miscinstalls/welderreview/weldermain.htm

Hoser,

That is a fantastic comparo. I had not even heard of the Zena before.

 

[robert j. yates]

I have a bit of experience with the Readywelder (I own and use one), the Premier and the Mobi Arc. The fact that I ended up with the Readywelder pretty much says that my experiences with the other 2 units were not good.

The Premier as others have mentioned, uses a dedicated alternator which if it goes out, can cause problems with getting a rig running or swapping in a spare if the wiring harness has been affected by the Premier installation. I pulled a guy in a CJ a ways out of Anza Borrego with a failed Priemier alternator.

As for the Mobi Arc....I am aware of 2 different Jeeps that have had this unit catch fire under the hood. I wouldn't install one on my rig even if it was given to me.

As for the Readywelder....I like that it is self contained and not connected to a specific vehicle or to a vehicles' electrical system. That makes for great portability as well as flexibility in dealing with a repair on the trail. It also lessens the complication associated with stuff on my rig which is already somewhat overloaded with non-stock equipment.

Pulling batteries can be a pain and would be on my Jeep as getting both batteries out from under the hood and disconnected from the harness would be time consumming. My response to that was to have dual batteries installed on my Horizon trailer.

 

[AFBronco235]

I'm resurrecting this dead thread because I have a question about alternator welders.

What I'm wanting to do is build a "man portable" version, maybe mounted on something like an ALICE pack frame and powered with a small engine, something along the lines of a chain saw or weed eater motor.

What I'm wanting it to do:
1. Weld (duh)
2. be light weight (under 50 lbs if possible)
3. Man portable, preferably on a back pack frame to carry from site to site. (you can't always get a vehicle close enough to do the welding.)
4. Charge/jump dead batteries.
5. I would also like it to act as a general purpose generator for a 12 volt power system.

Has anybody ever done something like this? Will the small motors I've listed work or do I need to go bigger? What RPM ranges am I looking at to make the alternator work as a welder? Do I, or should I use a battery as part of the system? (If weight gets too heavy for a pack, I can always go with a two wheeled dolly setup.

In terms of preparedness, I'm a pretty cautious guy by nature, so I like to have backups for my backups with their own backups. I also like to have tools or accessories with multiple functions to keep things light.

So, is my idea even feasible or am I just dreaming?

 

[pugslyyy]

The only thing that is going to be portable is a gas set with small bottles. Or 3 batteries in series (way over 50 pounds though)

You can get combination welder/gensets that are portable - but think of it more the size of a heavily laden wheelbarrow than something you are going to carry on your back.

 

[ripperj]

One horsepower is 745 watts. Amps times volts equals watts (power). Welders use lots of amps and low volts. No weed Wacker engine is going to power a welder capable of doing any expo emergency work( frames ect)

Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk 2

 

[AFBronco235]

One horsepower is 745 watts. Amps times volts equals watts (power). Welders use lots of amps and low volts. No weed Wacker engine is going to power a welder capable of doing any expo emergency work( frames ect)

Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk 2

My electrical theory is a bit rusty, but couldn't a transformer, wound properly, be able to convert the 12 volts produced by the alt into something much lower, say 1 or 2 while greatly increasing the amperage output in the end? As for the power source, I was just using the weed wacker as an example. I can go up several sizes and still maintain my 50 lb. limit. Maybe a chainsaw motor? The welder/alt I've looked at work between 2000 and 6500 rmp.

Could you also tell me what volt and amperage ranges I'd be looking for at the output?

 

[pugslyyy]

My electrical theory is a bit rusty, but couldn't a transformer, wound properly, be able to convert the 12 volts produced by the alt into something much lower, say 1 or 2 while greatly increasing the amperage output in the end? As for the power source, I was just using the weed wacker as an example. I can go up several sizes and still maintain my 50 lb. limit. Maybe a chainsaw motor? The welder/alt I've looked at work between 2000 and 6500 rmp.

Could you also tell me what volt and amperage ranges I'd be looking for at the output?

You're not going to be welding anything with 1 or 2 volts, unless I am very mistaken.

24 Volts and 300 Amps is probably minimum.

 

[AFBronco235]

You're not going to be welding anything with 1 or 2 volts, unless I am very mistaken.

24 Volts and 300 Amps is probably minimum.

That actually helps. Thank you. I like it when people give out hard numbers and not just general "can't be done" statements.