On the verge... how do I make it real

[freelheeler]

I'm looking to build another camper/expedition vehicle... we've more or less out grown our Four Wheel Camper (eagle) setup on our Toyota Tundra, it's been a great outfit but I've been eying up 4x4 vans... I got it bad!

Somehow I located a good condition 2003 e350 2wd cargo ps 7.3 with 84k within an hour drive. Have not yet pulled the trigger, mainly due to the unknowns of cost to modify and outfit. My end game is similar to most everyone a sweet 4x4 camper van with a pop top that can be used as a daily driver (if necessary) for less than $25k. If we could afford it my wife would have us in a $90k sports mobile but that's not happen for at least 10 more years, so I'm convincing her we can build it one piece at a time over the next few years for a fraction of the cost.

So the question to the forum... what is the appropriate cost of your builds and the amount of time it took (you can pm), I'm not looking for specific parts break down costs but more or less the end cost of a DIY 4x4 system, pop top, camper interior, seats, etc. Also a rough estimate of the amount of time weeks vs months vs years... I know ones abilities is a huge factor, so to qualify myself I'm an average shade tree mechanic with some tools and an aptitude for figuring things out, I fix a lot of stuff myself and often times get in over my head... but I've got some good friends with mad skills.

 

[Tamper84]

I'm interested my self...

Chris

 

[bknudtsen]

Costs can vary significantly depending on a few things;
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Cost of the van- This is the biggest variable. Some people are happy with older cargo vans, and others have started with brand new off the lot passenger vans. There are deals to be found out there, but figure $10,000-$18,000 for a decent diesel van. I paid $18k for a 2007 E350 Diesel EB Wagon with 65k miles.
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Donor Axles- Fresh from UJOR you are looking at $6,500 and up for both front and rear axles. Doing a full re-gear and rebuild yourself will save you shipping and crating fees, but not much more. If you are lucky enough to find a decent set at a wrecking yard with the right gears, then maybe you could save a couple thousand. My front axle cost me about $3,500 total to re-gear/rebuild. The rear will be about $2,500, depending on what traction device I decide to have installed. If you just keep the stock E350 rear end, then obviously your cost will be less.
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UJOR Conversion- Check UJOR's website for specific costs. There are too many options to list, but figure $4,000-ish for the lift. This is just to get the front axle under the van and rolling again. The 4x4 portion is another chunk of change depending on options.
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Wheels and Tires- Another huge variable. I paid just over $2500 total for all five.
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So, in my case, I am at $18,000+3,500+4,000+2,500=$27,000 This does not include the engine/exhaust work or interior work. I still have to buy a UJOR fuel tank, transfer-case and associated conversion pieces, Sterling rebuild, drive-shafts, other UJOR goodies, bumpers, roof racks, lighting, interior storage platform, etc...
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Can you do this for $25,000? If you start with a cheaper van, then you should be able to do the UJOR conversion for that price. Pop-tops and camper interiors are gonna push that cost up, but if you are handy and can do your own work, or graft a Westy-type top on, then your total cost will be lower. Ultimately, a 4x4 Camper Van is a big investment. They do retain their values, hence the resale costs you see. I have always gone the route of building vehicles with high quality components the first time around though, and I have always had good results.
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As far as time investment. I am at 17 months with my project. Some guys have done it over the course of a week, but I figure the average is somewhere in the 6 month to a 1 year range. My suggestion is this, and it is free, so take it for what it's worth....
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If you have found a good van that will suit your needs, then snatch it up. Decent 7.3's are harder and harder to find, and even nice 6.0's are rare, especially cargo vans. Do the build at a comfortable pace that won't burn you out or break the bank. And finally, spend time reading all the builds here, as there is so much info, it will take some time to sort through it all.
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Welcome and Good luck! Brad.

 

[JPutnam]

so far I am into mine about 2800. but I just bought axles and a cheap van. ive priced what I need to get the axles on the van. tires, wheels, replace bearings, etc. I figure another 2800 to get the axles on. then to do the 4x4 part, Trans, transfercase, driveshaft, exhaust, etc. I am looking at another 1k to $1500. I am trying to do it as cheap as possible. looking for the best deals I can get and am doing all the work myself. including making the shackle mounts and all the fab work. I am also planning on doing a LPG conversion on it. since it is a dedicated CNG van. cheap to drive. but kinda a hassle. the interior will be last on the list and I figure at least $300 for that. probably more. I am a diyer and will be doing everything myself. I also will be doing it as money permits. So I really couldnt estimate a time frame.

So i would say total I am estimating around 8k. but usually I estimate on the low end.

 

[bdog1]

I found a 94 diesel ext.e350 already 4x4. Ton of miles and not the best suspension up front but it's really been good for me. $6500 I wanted this model for WMO fuel. Leaves $$$ for repairs!

 

[KelsoD]

Like others have said, I think if you're going to achieve all those options you're looking to have, you will need to find a cheap base van. Possibly something that's already 4x4 and with slightly higher miles. Expect everything you do on your build to be more expensive than you plan. Little things like shipping are often an afterthought, but can really add up. It's also very hard to go with cheaper options once you get into the build, as we all want to have the best setups possible, so it will be important for you to always keep your budget at the forefront of all your decisions. You can definitely build a very cool van with that budget though, you will just have to pick and choose what you want to do. For me, I felt the pop-top, although extremely nice, would add complications that I didn't want and put me over my build budget, so I have more or less scratched it off my list. You may have different priorities than me though. I wrote out a detailed plan and cost of each thing I want to do, including shipping (and for me installation). Although it made me feel more limited than I wanted to be, it put into perspective the situation I am in.

It would be really cool to see you create a build thread on your process and speak to the idea of building a fully capable 4x4 camper van w/pop-top for that budget. Not too many people talk about the financial side of their vans and it might be helpful for others to see your process.

Best of luck with your search!!:smiley_drive:

 

[Christian P.]

just fyi, there is 2006 E350 Extended 6.0 diesel 4x4 for sale in my town (Truckee). 181000 miles. $19K but I am sure he would negotiate...

 

[ujoint]

Brad summed it up very well!

If you want solid #s to look at for that specific van, shoot me an email and I'll email an estimate. That may (or may not!) help with the decision.

 

[limatangobravo]

If you have time to spend looking for the van that has most of the options you want already installed that will save you alot of cash as well. I picked My 1995 sportsmobile with almost all of the options I wanted for well under 10,000.00. Having Ujoint's kit installed on an existing 4x4 Quigley conversion has saved me thousands of dollars.

 

[freelheeler]

Keep it coming... I made an offer on the van last night, hope to hear back today. I hope my wife doesn't read this but it's a good solid van and for the right price and if we decide not to build it, I should be able to turn for what i'll have in it...

My concern is its basically a motor and base to start my build, from that point on it's money out of my pocket and time (which seems to be more and more limited). I totally agree with the concept of purchasing an older in good condition SM and converting it you tend to save the depreciation cost and upfront expense of a new 4x4 kit, pop top etc.

What are folks opinion of quigley conversions??? the UJOR system/kit looks impressive...

 

[bknudtsen]

I think the popular opinion is that they are pretty nice as long as you don't try to stick a bunch of lift under them. Coil sprung front ends tend to be more susceptible to problems with geometry changes. If you are a Jeep guy, then you are probably aware of the term "death wobble." Now, to be fair, I have had two Jeeps, a built Cherokee, and a stockish TJ. Neither had DW issues, but I took great precautions to work out the geometry issues. Also, replacement parts can be difficult to source for some components that are Quigley specific. Conversely, with the exception of UJOR's custom brackets, all the running gear is OEM Ford F250/350 stuff.
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But, what pushed me to decide to go with UJOR is Chris's business ethic and desire to constantly improve his product. I have had my van for only 17 months, and in that time I have seen no less than a dozen new products or design improvements. That is unheard of these days! In addition, he is accessible here or on Facebook almost everyday to answer questions, solicit opinions on/ and showcase new products.
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In the end though, only you know what time, tools, skills and funds you have to dedicate to this project. Just remember to have fun and take your time.

 

[Toolman]

It took me $36k and 10 months of planning and building on weekends and week nights. All top shelf products, and material. Beginning with UJOR 6" lift - dynatrac freespin kit - Xover steering - 35's - ARB locker(s) - Aluminess Bumpers & Nerf Bars- 12 gallon water system - I'm extremely happy with it and as far as I'm concerned the most versatile vehicle I've ever owned, and I love the V10 I did a 75k mile service for under $300 oil, filter, plugs and EFI clean out and oh ya rear brakes pads + tire rotation.

Not sure if this is helpful but my build sheet came in less than half of what a SMB cost was and I spent less building it than I would have wasted on interest buying a used SMB. The best part, when you nickel and dime it together over a period of time, in the end it's already paid for and you can enjoy using it and seeing all your plans come together.

I believe in Chris @ UJOR and his continued growth, improved product line, and what sold me was his unmatched customer service. UJOR is a grass roots business and a fine example of American Free Enterprise.

I would never buy a 4x4 van conversion built by anyone else. period

 

[bknudtsen]

I believe in Chris @ UJOR and his continued growth, improved product line, and what sold me was his unmatched customer service. UJOR is a grass roots business and a fine example of American Free Enterprise.

I would never buy a 4x4 van conversion built by anyone else. period

Exactly right!

 

[copescobra]

Sounds like you are have educated yourself enough to know that used SMB's in the 2004 range with under 100,000 miles run in the $45-55K range. Turn key ready to go. With all the goodies that you will no doubt want but not want to pay retail for.
Having said that when build your own you get all new parts except for the Vehicle itself. I would think the cost outlay will be in the $25-$50K range depending on what kind of interior, penthouse top, and extra lights and alumines stuff all bring it up to the $50K mark. All this not including the cost of the Van to begin with and any work being needed on the engine..

I do think it is worth doing with someone like Chris at Ujoint simply because you are then getting all brand new parts. Not a Vehicle that has already been beaten up but kept in good shape. So brand new vs used SMB---I know my choice.....

good luck with your decision..... What matters is that you are happy beyond that there are no wrong choices.

 

[Toolman]

Sounds like you are have educated yourself enough to know that used SMB's in the 2004 range with under 100,000 miles run in the $45-55K range. Turn key ready to go. With all the goodies that you will no doubt want but not want to pay retail for.
Having said that when build your own you get all new parts except for the Vehicle itself. I would think the cost outlay will be in the $25-$50K range depending on what kind of interior, penthouse top, and extra lights and alumines stuff all bring it up to the $50K mark. All this not including the cost of the Van to begin with and any work being needed on the engine..

I do think it is worth doing with someone like Chris at Ujoint simply because you are then getting all brand new parts. Not a Vehicle that has already been beaten up but kept in good shape. So brand new vs used SMB---I know my choice.....

good luck with your decision..... What matters is that you are happy beyond that there are no wrong choices.

I could easily spend another $10k on random crap that will get used maybe twice a year. I took a hard look at what we use when we go into the back country and it was pretty basic. It also cuts the overall weight of the rig down. Less cabinets to house units and material to mount stuff. Plus all that stuff takes up valuable storage space.

Things I planned for during the build
1. place to sleep off the ground with very little set up--- check
2. water storage w/ pump --- check
3. place to boil water inside. --- check
4. ability to use facilities inside or out --- check
5. has to be able to haul a load, after all it is a 1 ton truck --- check-- this is my biggest issue with SMB lay outs
6. seat 4 passengers --- check
7. easy to maintain - check -- V10
8. Better MPG than RV --- check

Things I know I'll never need
1. microwave
2. hot water
3. forced air heating
4. black and gray water holding tanks
5. penthouse top -- made way too much noise when I test drove an smb with PH Top
6. awning - made 1 for free
7. propane tank -
8. permanently mounted stove
9. permanently mounted sink inside

Easily saved $10k right there for stuff I personally think is useless in a camper van. If I want all the amenities that home has to offer, I'll stay home. I get away to get back to the basics.

It never occurred to me that a self converted rig has all brand new parts (duh), and a used SMB is more than likely sitting somewhere rotting for a bit and then it's decided to be sold. WOW what a revelation.

Thanks for pointing out that I would have bought a bunch of used crap installed that I didn't need or want.

If you were to pay someone to do what I did to my van the labor bill would up there. So add another $8k-$10k for labor. Which is still around the cost of a "used" SMB that you know nothing about. Not to bash SMB but I couldn't stomach paying someone to "f" up my van. I've read too many short horror stories starring characters from Fresno. Also I should mention that I remanned the window surrounds because I couldn't get the plastic to stop rattling. = time and material I could have saved.
If you're wondering how I survive without all those items, I can give you a list of portable units I use that can go with us into the TJ or the JK for deeper back country exploration.