Open Differentials vs. Traction Control vs. Lockers
- Thread starter MikeHenderson
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Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
Yeah, I'd have both axles locked to go up that ice as slow as possible. Studs or cables would have been nice. And I'd only be in 1wd when I'd hit that and notice a problem, anyways. Because there is no deep anything in that vid, that would require 4wd.
Hitting ice like that at speed, I just go straight across it. No drama at all. Cincinatti gets ice like that often, in patches not whole roads.
Really, ice like that, I'm not even in 4wd. Which is why I can get away with more aggressive diff setup.
Hitting ice like that at speed, I just go straight across it. No drama at all. Cincinatti gets ice like that often, in patches not whole roads.
Really, ice like that, I'm not even in 4wd. Which is why I can get away with more aggressive diff setup.
Happy Joe
Apprentice Geezer
Ice like that and similar for average vehicles and drivers is why vehicles are available with traction control...I don't see much of a problem...If it happens often gear up for it.
I hate it when I end up in the middle of an OHHhh... Shhh****! moment. (fortunately it doesn't happen often enough to worry about it;
the last time was about a month ago when a non driver in a newer Suburban with oversize tires locked 'em up on a very gradual, nearly level, slope and slid for near a block before smashing several cars in an intersection... I just moved over enough so they missed me, with the back bumper as they slid by, sideways, and continued driving (watched it in the rear view).
Enjoy!
I hate it when I end up in the middle of an OHHhh... Shhh****! moment. (fortunately it doesn't happen often enough to worry about it;
the last time was about a month ago when a non driver in a newer Suburban with oversize tires locked 'em up on a very gradual, nearly level, slope and slid for near a block before smashing several cars in an intersection... I just moved over enough so they missed me, with the back bumper as they slid by, sideways, and continued driving (watched it in the rear view).
Enjoy!
MOguy
Explorer
Fortunately are ice days are limited, I just stay off the road. Snow days are also limited but don't offer the same level of challenges.
On a side not my old school front ARB kicked the bucket and is being replaced.
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Metcalf
Expedition Leader
What failed on the locker?
MOguy
Explorer
On the old Dana 30 ARB Locker there are 6 bolts that hold a ring down which keeps the diaphragm in place. Those bolts could break, and mine did It was somewhat of a common problem with those ARBs. Mine lasted 18 years before it failed.
Happy Joe
Apprentice Geezer
Thats a shame; my original D30 ARB is around 30 years old and still going for the new owners.
the only issues that I had with it or the compressor were air leaks in the plastic hose a couple of times..
Are you going to stay with the D30 or upgrade the axle assembly?
Enjoy!
MOguy
Explorer
I am sticking with the Dana 30, it was do to poor design on the part of ARB not because of the Dana 30. The new ARB has a lifetime warranty, or so I was told. In the past I ran 35s put I will be sticking with 33s.
Have you ever checked the bolts that hold the ring on? My understanding is that is where the fail happens. The Dana 44 and the new Dana 30 are built different. I am not sure about the ones for other axles and I am not sure how many different variations ARB diffs they have had for various axles over the years.
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Metcalf
Expedition Leader
I like the idea/concept of the ARB air locker ( and the Yukon Zip locker ) , but I migrated over to the Ox Locker with the internal air shift solenoid in the cover.
Getting away from the rotating high pressure seals that you can't really repair in the field made the most sense to me. I know with the 'perfect' install that you don't see many issues, but I do see a LOT of issues on the trails with ARB and Zip Lockers leaking. Those leaks seem to be about 75% past the bulkhead fittings inside the diff and about 25% on the outside with the lines or solenoid
If you have to drop the carrier for gear problems in the field, it's nice not having to worry about the air seals either.
The Ox can also be bypassed mechanically with a small screw in bolt accessory if something in the air system was to fail.
My new truck has Toyota factory E-lockers front and rear. Those work way better than I thought they would once you remove all the factory nanny controls.
I really like that they have a LOCKED sensor in the diff that can tell you when the diff is actually in the locked/unlocked position.
What is really needed in the market, especially for the rear diff, is a selectable locker that can go from unlocked to locked to unlocked without any binding or ring gear rotation.
To dream.
Getting away from the rotating high pressure seals that you can't really repair in the field made the most sense to me. I know with the 'perfect' install that you don't see many issues, but I do see a LOT of issues on the trails with ARB and Zip Lockers leaking. Those leaks seem to be about 75% past the bulkhead fittings inside the diff and about 25% on the outside with the lines or solenoid
If you have to drop the carrier for gear problems in the field, it's nice not having to worry about the air seals either.
The Ox can also be bypassed mechanically with a small screw in bolt accessory if something in the air system was to fail.
My new truck has Toyota factory E-lockers front and rear. Those work way better than I thought they would once you remove all the factory nanny controls.
I really like that they have a LOCKED sensor in the diff that can tell you when the diff is actually in the locked/unlocked position.
What is really needed in the market, especially for the rear diff, is a selectable locker that can go from unlocked to locked to unlocked without any binding or ring gear rotation.
To dream.
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
It's worth mentioning that the Ford Elockers close with 12v, then drop down to lower voltage to save the coil. IIRC, Jeep has started doing something similar.
There is a company that makes a bypass that does the same thing. But I don't find the nanny controls a problem. Locker disengages at 20mph except in 4L. Not a big deal.
There is a company that makes a bypass that does the same thing. But I don't find the nanny controls a problem. Locker disengages at 20mph except in 4L. Not a big deal.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
The Toyota factory E-lockers like I have use a 12V motor to wind a clock spring basically. They are not electro-magnetic like most of the new e-locker designs.
MOguy
Explorer
How easy are the cable to pull? Do the have to be tightened? I have a PTO powered Dump bed on my truck and the cable for it need to be adjusted often and replaced every few years.
I have had 3 issues in 18 years with the ARB. First is the rear nipple broke twice so I replaced it with their heavy duty line and no issues since. Both were simple easy 10-15 minute fixes. Second I have had to tighten the tank a few times over the years, take longer to get the wrench than to tighten it and now the ruined front locker, $1500 bill parts and labor but now has a life time warranty, that sucks.
The Ox Lockers weren't around when I got my ARBs. I would only consider one of these two. If I were to do it again I would find the installer I wanted to trust and have them install whichever they recommended.
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Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Yup, lots of people running ARB lockers. They are a solid product, I have just fallen out of love with them now that there are other options.
They do still make them for a LOT of different axles that you cannot get an OX locker for yet ( but most of the common stuff is covered ). That is their only remaining advantage to me.
I install and set up all my own gears. I don't trust anyone more than myself for that kind of stuff after being through many 'professional' and OEM gear installs.
I do like that ARB is good about selling parts if you do have something fail. Eaton is terriable about that.
If possible I prefer the ox for a selectable locker, you basically get all the upsides of the ARB/ZIP selectable system with none of the integrated downsides.
My ox locker in the ol flattie has been flawless for 7+ years now or so. There is nothing internally to worry about. The machine work and construction are fantastic.
There isn't really anything in the diff to fail ( and they are a 4-pinion side gear arrangement when open ).
All the air stuff is contained in the heavy duty diff cover and is just a few o-ring non-rotating seals.
All the air fittings are standard npt and 1/4" air line push lock stuff available at any NAPA.
Sadly, all selectable lockers on the market right now have the same tragic flaw. You need ring gear rotation to align the locking collar and once locked they don't like to unlock if they are bound up.
That is generally the same for all of them. Shame.
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
The only Ox downsides are that:
-you don't want to hit the air actuator or cable actuator, on a rock. But they are cheap to replace.
-won't ratchet when locked like an auto
Although I don't recall rock any dings half way up my diff cover. That would be a truck stopping crash, not a drab or rub.
I can wait for my rear axle to lock up with some movement, but I like my front end always there.
-you don't want to hit the air actuator or cable actuator, on a rock. But they are cheap to replace.
-won't ratchet when locked like an auto
Although I don't recall rock any dings half way up my diff cover. That would be a truck stopping crash, not a drab or rub.
I can wait for my rear axle to lock up with some movement, but I like my front end always there.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
The internal air version is very compact. I haven't hit it in a LOT of trail miles. A guard could always be added. It might be better just to use a $3 nylon air brake line fitting and have that be the weak point if you did manage to stuff something up in there. I do agree the cable and electric version of the OX are a little more suseptable to damage, but not really THAT much more than a normal ARB or Zip Line IF you think stuff is going to be way up in there. Any damage to the locking mechanism is also outside of the differential mechanism itself. The cover can be pulled and repaired on the bench without having to change the gear setup at all.
All selectable lockers that I know of don't ratchet. That is one of the main reason I like running a front automatic locker. I think it does a better job of locking/unlocking when needed in a front application where 3WD is actually needed. A front selectable when locked is always going to feel more bound up. If you could dial out ALL the scrub radius it might get better, but that could create other issues.
I don't mind waiting for the rear axle to lock either since I don't use it that often, but it would be nice not having to worry about it crash locking when trying to turn it on/off on the fly.
An instant unlock would be nice.