Opinions on an expotrailer made from a utility bed?

[mmtoy]

I'm looking around at expedition-style trailer options...If I was solo, I'd just sleep on the ground and have a single cup for coffe, oatmeal, and chili, and a 1-burner stove...My DW, however, would very much like to have a real kitchen when we're out for more than a few days.

So, I'm looking at options. The Adventure Trailers, King Kampers, etc. look great, but they're way out of my price range.

So, I'm looking at converting a utility bed like this one, only done a bit better, with the option of adding a four wheel camper-style pop-up to the bed.

The bare beds go for anywhere from $100 to $1000, used.

I have very little experience building a highway-safe vehicle from scratch. I'm a good mechanic, am comfortable welding (certainly not an expert), doing some fabrication, etc., but I don't want to get into this project without some idea of the pitfalls I'll encounter. I've read others' threads, and need to do so again, but this post is to ask specifically about peoples' thoughts on this particular project...

So, why shouldn't I do this, or what should I watch out for? I'm most concerned about not having the thing disintegrate on the freeway (off-road would be bad too, but it probably wouldn't be fatal), but I also don't want to be pulling something the mass of a tank (max load is 6500 pounds, but I would like to keep it much less than that, of course).

Thoughts and desires
1) I would like trailer brakes; should I purchase a new axle, or can I find a reliable used one?
2) I would like to have '07 Tacoma-matching hubs so I can share wheels. Where in the world would I find that AND have trailer brakes on the axle?
3) How should I mount the bed to the frame? I've seen some people mount their trailer "box" directly to the frame, but I've also read that I should "spring mount" it. I'm not sure the frame will be flexing enough to require a separation between the bed and the frame.
4) Should I fab the frame or pick up one from a junk yard or borrow one from a used utility trailer?

This project probably wouldn't even be started until late winter or spring, so I have some time to think things through.

 

[Martyn]

Utility trailers are usually heavy and low to the ground.

You may do better adding so a simple box rather than buying a multi box unit for the sake of weight.

To gain the clearance you can do a spring over or change the spring out to a more arched type. You really need 36" spring minimum for off road with a military wrap on the eye. Shackles will also give you clearance.

If the tires are under the trailer it limits the size of tires you can fit. You'd do better with the tires outside the main box with fenders.

3500 lb axles are relatively cheap if you can use a standard length. The great thing about a new axle is you know it's history. New spindles, new seals, new bearings. Stay away from Torsionflex style axles, they are too problematic off road.

Hubs are interchangeable and you can easily find 6 on 5.5 the Toyota pattern. You can also choose between braked or un-braked hubs.

If you use C channel for the chassis it will flex, if you use rectangular tube for the chassis and it has good wall thickness it shouldn't flex too much. Mounting the box to the chassis is the standard way to mount the box. Given the length of the chassis the flex shouldn't be too great. Spring mounting the box would be ideal but more difficult. It's more the type of thing done on camper units on Unimogs and Fuso's.

Structural integrity is important especially off road due to the vibration set up on wash board and impacting solid object and impacts after drop offs. Welds should be technically correct and heat penetration even on both sides. Critical welds should be reinforced with plates.

Sounds like a military style trailer would suit you best. A Canadian 101 or US 416 may be a good starting point. The suspension is brutal, if it was me that would be the first thing to go.

Adding a pop up to an off road chassis is good from a stand point of all the features it offers, but the quality of the build on the majority of pop ups is so poor that the thing will start to rattle itself to pieces quickly. You may have witnessed this happening from all the "spare parts" littering the sides of wash board roads around the country.

There are no easy answers here, only compromises. We'd love to produce a trailer in a price range you could afford, but the materials and design needed for an off road trailer that is going to last just don't allow any corners to be cut.

 

[Rezarf <><]

There is an old saying that you can do anything with enough, time, will, and money... choose two.

I have more time than money and will than good sense. I am building one from scratch to meet my needs. There are a few good things and bad things in choosing this option:

Good:
1. I can have the trailer built the way I want it.
2. I can control all the quality.
3. I can set the budget and final price, and decide places to save a few bucks.
4. I don't have to modify or restore another trailer to get going.

Bad:
1. I am already into my project 3+ months.
2. The learning curve is steeper than most think.
3. You will inevitably buy things you won't use, or not have things on hand that you need to keep building.
4. Did I mention it has already taken a lot of time?

If you have to have a top notch trailer you only have two options, buy a top notch trailer (AT would get my $) or build one yourself and hope for the best.

 

[mmtoy]

Thanks for the replies. They're basically what I was expecting (it'll be a lot of work and make sure the important things are done right).

I'd LOVE to own an AT, but for everything we'd want in an expedition trailer, the cost is prohibitive. I know it's reasonable; it just doesn't fit into our budget.

I think all the cons you listed, Rezarf, are true of any new project.

Thanks for your advice, Martyn. I've looked at the m416, but I want something more than just a box on wheels. I suppose I can modify one to fit my needs, and it would probably not be any more difficult than turning a utility truck bed into a decent trailer.

I'll keep thinking and looking!

Thanks!

 

[mmtoy]

Just saw Willman cross-link my post to this one:

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=132774#post132774

I'm not thinking of using a utility trailer as the base to build from. I'm thinking of using a utility bed, like this.

 

[Willman]

^Build a frame and your set!

Might be a little top heavy if you go the camper route......Spotters line hooks would be a must!

I like it!

 

[kcowyo]

So, I'm looking at converting a utility bed like this one, only done a bit better, with the option of adding a four wheel camper-style pop-up to the bed.

Regarding adding an FWC to a utility bed, you may run into a problem. This was discussed recently on a FWC owner's forum and the consensus from a current FWC rep and the former owner of FWC, is that while it's been done, the utility beds were custom made to fit with a FWC. Prices they were mentioning for a custom utility bed were around $6K.

It can be done, and has been but at a hefty price. The standard utility beds are too narrow or the FWC base is too wide due to the double step design. The weight of a steel utility bed would be considerable as well.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

The key in my opinion is a decent welder that has good strength to produce good welds as long as you have mildly decent technique. Then with this and a 4" grinder with cut off wheels you can achieve quite a bit. If you are on a budget it might not be that bad an option IMO...

 

[highlandercj-7]

I'm not one to worry much about weight cause my rigs are all V-8's but the utility beds round here such as Reading's are super heavy. Unless I was pulling with a Cummins. I'd definatly re think that one. If you could find one made out of aluminum it would be slick but the cheap factor would probally go out the window too. Maybe look into an ambulance body. They are usually aluminum.

 

[BMAN]

I thought long and hard about this exact solution for my expo-trailer needs. The biggest problem I see with this is the weight of a utility bed. The second limiting factor is the fact that you're limited to what's available. I've been working up a trailer design that is very similar but made with aluminum boxes rather than steel and will be of a custom size and layout that will allow it to be EXATLY what I want rather than something close. A friend and I have planned to build a couple and see what kind of reaction we get from the public and possibly going to market with them. The end user cost would be in the $6k dollar range outfitted with fuel and water storage and a kitchen.

 

[UK4X4]

I too looked at these, and discounted for most of the above reasons...plus the redneck engineering involved

I went to look at one....the "frame" was two rusted lightweight c channels in a triangle, and connected to the "box bed" with self tappers.

Just great for towing round the condo complex as a mobile tool box....

It would have self destructed after hitting a good speed bump, let alone off roading.

Even if its light weight and has a reasonable chassis...then you have to look at the expence of upgrading the suspension / highering it, changing the hubs
swapping the hitch, rewiring, getting bigger wheel tires modifying to suit larger wheel tyres...etc etc.

your cheap bargain ends up being quite expencive.

just buy my one and add a front box !

 

[mmtoy]

I've been looking at your trailer... I like compartments, so the box would require some modifications, but it looks doable. If I make up my mind to go the "easy" route, before you sell it, I'll let you know. No mind-making will happen in the next weeks.

DW wants something with a comfy bed for some of our road trips. I want something that will survive 200 km of backcountry trails. I don't want too many trailers, so we're still negotiating.

 

[Overdrive]

Is this what you have in mind?

I took these photos a few years ago. It was parked at an International Harvester show, and the owner was not around to talk to. If you want 360* photos, PM me and I'll email them to 'ya.


"kcowyo" brought up a good point about the configuration needed to fit a FWC. A write up of a custom utility bed for a FWC is found here:
http://dodgeram.org/ki4cy/diamond/diamond.htm

Scott

 

[mmtoy]

Yes, that's pretty much what I have in mind. PM sent.

 

[Bella PSD]

Was that at a International Harvester show in Springfield Ohio?

Louie