Our Dual-Sport GMC Sierra
- Thread starter chaos616
- Start date
shore_fire
New member
Bad.
@$$.
That is all.
@$$.
That is all.
chaos616
Adventurer
k9lestat, thanks,
shore_fire, also thanks.
We are getting things ready for Death Valley, gotta change out the top soft springs tonight and then pack some stuff up, should be good as i think i have most everything else pretty much figured out.
A couple fun pictures just to tide over until i can get some from DV:
*Also I am considering a diesel swap, we are still averaging about 12 mpg, but i would really like to get in the 20's realistically. I think it can be done with older/smaller diesel engines not tuned to their peak performance. I want a mild diesel that can do highway speed and offroad just fine. Prefer little to no electronics but i want to be able to have A/C etc...
I have thought about this and believe this to be feasable but i just need to find the right engine. The engines considered so far:
cummins 5.9 12 valve, either early or later (pump is of little concern, although the p7100 is more adjustable)
+ it is powerful, has good momentum behind it, good size for truck, reliable, fairly fuel efficient, can bolt up to gm nv4500 with a few modifications (input bearing retainer and new HD shaft)
- it is heavy, it is very long and leaves very little room for mechanical fan (i do not want electric fans) can be hell on the nv4500 if not careful.
cummins 4bt 3.9, any variation really would be fine, automotive variation prefered as well as higher hp units.
+fairly torquey, much smaller in physical size, bolts up to nv4500 gm transmission with inputshaft and bearing retainer switch (minimal custom work), easier on transmission, much lighter, reliable
- possibly not enough to move a 9000 lb. truck, lower momentum, very viby/expensive to blueprint and balance.
Izusu 4bdt1
+light, quiet, vibration free, reliable, mechanical
- not terribly powerful, issues with transmission adaptation and input shaft adaptation, unfamiliar with engine
mercedes om617
+ 5 cylinder, a bit more power but not a ton, also somewhat reliable, mechanical
- issues with transmission and input shaft adaptation, unfamiliar with engine
6.6 duramax LB7
+could get a doner truck, will be an easier swap sort of due to gm compatiablity, good milage, lots of power, has a bolt pattern that i can fit the gm transmission up to with a bunch of work
- heavy, too many electronics, need a doner truck pretty much, decent reliablility.
I assume there are others, please comment on your thoughts and opinions, i know there are folks who just assume keep the gasoline for the light maintenance and ease of rebuild, but i really want the milage and distance from my tanks with the diesel and the torque due to the heavy wheels and tires/ running gear. Also if there are better gasoline engines than the 6.0L also comment please.
We are considering this truck for a drive through south america, i don't want to get 10 mpg as we will be on an extreme budget for the trip which also brings to the point that although i like places like acd diesel and others, i cannot afford a 15,000 dollar engine to put in my truck my max would be 6k for the whole swap, at that point i would have to drive about 70,000 miles to make up for the cost and start saving, any cheaper helps.
So what are your thoughts???
Cheers,
shore_fire, also thanks.
We are getting things ready for Death Valley, gotta change out the top soft springs tonight and then pack some stuff up, should be good as i think i have most everything else pretty much figured out.
A couple fun pictures just to tide over until i can get some from DV:
*Also I am considering a diesel swap, we are still averaging about 12 mpg, but i would really like to get in the 20's realistically. I think it can be done with older/smaller diesel engines not tuned to their peak performance. I want a mild diesel that can do highway speed and offroad just fine. Prefer little to no electronics but i want to be able to have A/C etc...
I have thought about this and believe this to be feasable but i just need to find the right engine. The engines considered so far:
cummins 5.9 12 valve, either early or later (pump is of little concern, although the p7100 is more adjustable)
+ it is powerful, has good momentum behind it, good size for truck, reliable, fairly fuel efficient, can bolt up to gm nv4500 with a few modifications (input bearing retainer and new HD shaft)
- it is heavy, it is very long and leaves very little room for mechanical fan (i do not want electric fans) can be hell on the nv4500 if not careful.
cummins 4bt 3.9, any variation really would be fine, automotive variation prefered as well as higher hp units.
+fairly torquey, much smaller in physical size, bolts up to nv4500 gm transmission with inputshaft and bearing retainer switch (minimal custom work), easier on transmission, much lighter, reliable
- possibly not enough to move a 9000 lb. truck, lower momentum, very viby/expensive to blueprint and balance.
Izusu 4bdt1
+light, quiet, vibration free, reliable, mechanical
- not terribly powerful, issues with transmission adaptation and input shaft adaptation, unfamiliar with engine
mercedes om617
+ 5 cylinder, a bit more power but not a ton, also somewhat reliable, mechanical
- issues with transmission and input shaft adaptation, unfamiliar with engine
6.6 duramax LB7
+could get a doner truck, will be an easier swap sort of due to gm compatiablity, good milage, lots of power, has a bolt pattern that i can fit the gm transmission up to with a bunch of work
- heavy, too many electronics, need a doner truck pretty much, decent reliablility.
I assume there are others, please comment on your thoughts and opinions, i know there are folks who just assume keep the gasoline for the light maintenance and ease of rebuild, but i really want the milage and distance from my tanks with the diesel and the torque due to the heavy wheels and tires/ running gear. Also if there are better gasoline engines than the 6.0L also comment please.
We are considering this truck for a drive through south america, i don't want to get 10 mpg as we will be on an extreme budget for the trip which also brings to the point that although i like places like acd diesel and others, i cannot afford a 15,000 dollar engine to put in my truck my max would be 6k for the whole swap, at that point i would have to drive about 70,000 miles to make up for the cost and start saving, any cheaper helps.
So what are your thoughts???
Cheers,
shore_fire
New member
So I have been working on a cummins 6bt repower for a long time (way longer than I wanted to be.) My vote is the 5.9L, 1st/2nd gen just for dirt-simple reliability and economy. That said, the aftermarket is rolling with support for the 98-04 6bt swap for your truck. The issue there (as it is with any modern engine) is the ECU... how willing are you to put your trust in a computer 50 miles from the nearest electric light?
That being said... DUDE! I would kill to watch you swap in a Cummins. Especially if you write it up like you have this whole build.
That being said... DUDE! I would kill to watch you swap in a Cummins. Especially if you write it up like you have this whole build.
chaos616
Adventurer
hey shore_fire, Sweet, what are you putting the cummins in by chance. And yeah, luckly i have the blackbear tune already so I can keep the PCM as elec. power management and interior gauges A/C etc... I agree, 1st/2nd gen is the best. I prefer the 2nd but i would take a 1st in a heartbeat if offered. I found a dodge around here someone was parting out (insurance issues) but its the 98-04 which is a good motor, just too many electrics. i guess the guy wants 3 grand for the engine auto tranny and t-case i think. Its not a terrible price for a lower mile truck (90,000+), but i don't want to deal with having to get a wiring harness for the engine let along incorporating it into the current electrical in the truck. And no i'm getting less trustworthy of computers as time goes on, not because the computer is the issue, but electrical gremlins can be tough to find in the middle of nowhere.
I will certainly write it up if i get going on it!
Cheers,
I will certainly write it up if i get going on it!
Cheers,
surlydiesel
Adventurer
They put the 4BT motor in the F-Series trucks in South America. That has always been my pipe dream. A 4 banger diesel in a full sized truck with a gear vendors OD setup. The right gearing and with the OD setup, I think it will be able to do HW speeds. Just need to shift a bit more often. They are light in comparison and you have plenty of space to work under the hood.
I like the truck, you've re-engineered the weaknesses out.
-jorge
I like the truck, you've re-engineered the weaknesses out.
-jorge
shore_fire
New member
84 c30 3+3 14bff with 1st gen/a518/np205/d60 from 93 dodge w250. unfortunately having to sell my dream truck unfinished.
You know if you had the time/money/inclination you could p-pump that 98-04. then you'd be rid of those pesky electrics. just watch the block casting number.
chaos616
Adventurer
jorge, i didn't know that they did that, but i do tend to like the 4bt for the size more than anything. It would be sweet to have a little powerful 4 cylinder, and yeah if i did the OD, i know low gear wouldn't be bad as I will eventually be going to a doubler transfer case more for the options it provides more than the extreme low, however it would help the little diesel push through the rough stuff too. Thanks for the comments as well, i have at least taken a stab at engineering them out, i know there are a few things that need to be changed. One of the big ones is i used poly heims and bushings and the axle is allowed to rotate more than i like, i will be changing out one end for a rigid metal heim more than likely to reduce that issue..
shore_fire, very nice truck, sad to hear you having to sell it, that would be one awesome truck once completed. always like a good square body. Sounds like you had the right combo of heavy duty gear going under it too. Also yeah, i believe it was the castings that were cast in brazil and they were stamped or casted in #53 if i remember correctly.
Cheers,
Will with death valley stuff soon!!!
shore_fire, very nice truck, sad to hear you having to sell it, that would be one awesome truck once completed. always like a good square body. Sounds like you had the right combo of heavy duty gear going under it too. Also yeah, i believe it was the castings that were cast in brazil and they were stamped or casted in #53 if i remember correctly.
Cheers,
Will with death valley stuff soon!!!
amgvr4
Adventurer
The truck is looking good. It sounds like you are getting your spring rates dialed in like you want. Keep those stiff springs incase you end up with a 6bt swap. Based on your requirements that is probably the only option, I love my 7.3 powerstroke but it would probably be an invitation to be struck by lightning! Good luck and have fun in Death Valley!
chaos616
Adventurer
hey amg, yeah, they are getting there for sure, i actually ordered 12" 450 rate 3.0 ID springs for the top which would sit on top of my 14" 450 rate 3.0 ID springs to give me a good dual rate and single rate, but they sent me 2.5" ID 12" 450s so i guess i'll have to wait until i get the bigger ones to throw them on.
I actually found a 7.3 some one was selling and considered it, but i figured i would be in the same boat as far as compatability issues with my current transmission. The 7.3 is the best PSD around though and if i were to put a PSD in it would be that. It seems as though Dodge and GM shared quite a few things over the years however whereas GM and Ford really did not.
Cheers,
I actually found a 7.3 some one was selling and considered it, but i figured i would be in the same boat as far as compatability issues with my current transmission. The 7.3 is the best PSD around though and if i were to put a PSD in it would be that. It seems as though Dodge and GM shared quite a few things over the years however whereas GM and Ford really did not.
Cheers,
chaos616
Adventurer
HAHAHA, yeah...don't give me any more crazy idea's!!! That would be a lot of fun though.
Soooooooo...
I wrecked some stuff in Death Valley last weekend. We were able to make it home, but it was rough. To be fair the things that got destroyed were things i purchased, not anything i built. I will also post up some pictures hopefully soon when time allows as its a busy week this week.
First thing was the bumpstops: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-9-9137r/overview/
*NOTE: I did not actually get these from summit, but they were the same product*
They basically shredded under the truck. I didn't get my upper springs in time, so we probably used the bumpstops quite a bit, but they still didn't hold up even 1 hard day of offroad. I'm not sure if i want to go with poly again or just dive in and do a hydraulic bumpstop setup. If i did i would use a 2" travel F.O.A. or radflo bumpstop. I will mount the actual bumpstop on the axle and the pad on the frame, so i need shorter bumpstops. http://f-o-a.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_44&products_id=25
Also i shredded my ballistic fabrication bushings, the biggest ones they sell: http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Ballistic-Forged-Poly-Bushing-263_p_1646.html
*NOTE: I did buy these from ballistic fabrication*
I was a bit disappointed in the bushings, i will get pictures but i think part of the issue may have been using the bushings on the frame and the 3.0" joints (bushed as well) on the front. Although I have to say the 3.0" joints held up well as far as i can tell. http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/30-Forged-Ultra-Duty-Ballistic-Joint_p_1626.html
I will now be going with new joints on the rear (frame side) that are hard joints and this should give the truck a more stable feel plus hold up better. It was a debate with which product to go with however EMF won out in the end as having some seriously tough joints, good reviews too. I went with these (the filthy ball ones, meaning 2.625" mounting width): http://www.emfrodends.com/EMF-Rod-End-Large-1-25-Shank-p/ehl1.25.htm
So far (having just ordered the joints) I am impressed with EMF as a company. The will be in my area this coming weekend and have offered to basically hand deliver them to me. I have never delt with a company with that kind of customer service and care. I am really excited to get the joints and it will be fun being able to meet the folks who make them.
So that is the situation thus far. I will also post a report (with pictures) of the failed components on the truck as well as a short Death Valley trip report here (also with pictures).
Cheers.
Soooooooo...
I wrecked some stuff in Death Valley last weekend. We were able to make it home, but it was rough. To be fair the things that got destroyed were things i purchased, not anything i built. I will also post up some pictures hopefully soon when time allows as its a busy week this week.
First thing was the bumpstops: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-9-9137r/overview/
*NOTE: I did not actually get these from summit, but they were the same product*
They basically shredded under the truck. I didn't get my upper springs in time, so we probably used the bumpstops quite a bit, but they still didn't hold up even 1 hard day of offroad. I'm not sure if i want to go with poly again or just dive in and do a hydraulic bumpstop setup. If i did i would use a 2" travel F.O.A. or radflo bumpstop. I will mount the actual bumpstop on the axle and the pad on the frame, so i need shorter bumpstops. http://f-o-a.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_44&products_id=25
Also i shredded my ballistic fabrication bushings, the biggest ones they sell: http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Ballistic-Forged-Poly-Bushing-263_p_1646.html
*NOTE: I did buy these from ballistic fabrication*
I was a bit disappointed in the bushings, i will get pictures but i think part of the issue may have been using the bushings on the frame and the 3.0" joints (bushed as well) on the front. Although I have to say the 3.0" joints held up well as far as i can tell. http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/30-Forged-Ultra-Duty-Ballistic-Joint_p_1626.html
I will now be going with new joints on the rear (frame side) that are hard joints and this should give the truck a more stable feel plus hold up better. It was a debate with which product to go with however EMF won out in the end as having some seriously tough joints, good reviews too. I went with these (the filthy ball ones, meaning 2.625" mounting width): http://www.emfrodends.com/EMF-Rod-End-Large-1-25-Shank-p/ehl1.25.htm
So far (having just ordered the joints) I am impressed with EMF as a company. The will be in my area this coming weekend and have offered to basically hand deliver them to me. I have never delt with a company with that kind of customer service and care. I am really excited to get the joints and it will be fun being able to meet the folks who make them.
So that is the situation thus far. I will also post a report (with pictures) of the failed components on the truck as well as a short Death Valley trip report here (also with pictures).
Cheers.
chaos616
Adventurer
Alright so here is my report of Death Valley Trip including the carnage and rescue mission along with some people trucks and scenery...and a ton of rocks.
Our Friends Mike and Rue began their journey to DV on Wednesday Morning (March 25). They spent the day driving down and seeing Titus Canyon amongst other things. Myself and Brittany did not get off work until about 5 pm wednesday where we promptly did a last minute cleanup and finish packing a few things (most was packed the week prior). We then hi-tailed it to DV in the truck and arrived at our camp spot (thanks to our friends for getting one earlier) at about 1:30 am.
So starts our Journey (sorry no pictures of the long dark 6.5 hr. drive to DV). Thursday morning (March 26), we all wake up do the regular breakfast thing and then go over a quick itinerary where i have already laid out some rough plans for the days ahead, including tons of off road throughout the northern and western parts of the park.
The first stop was Scotty's Castle, where we not only checked out the castle from the outside (you have to pay to tour the inside) but also checked into the park officially:
I won't bore you with the details of Scotty's Castle as its a huge landmark and you can read about it, but it was a very neat place.
We then took off north were we first stopped at Ubehebe Crater (unintented picture of that later) and then zoomed off to find a bit of dirt. We headed north to Crankshaft Junction where we promptly came over a crest of a hill at about 40 mph and dropped into a 1.5' deep hole and then bottomed out pretty bad. We stopped to check but there was no damage, at least not noticable (again sorry no pictures).
After crankshaft we headed west toward our first real destination the Eureka Dunes, however we first stopped at this old sulpher mine, and yes it smelled:
We then took off and headed down a bunch of roads with a bunch of washboard, and speaking of washboard, if you don't like it, stay out of DV, cause almost every dirt road in the park has the meanest and biggest washboard i've driven on in a long time.
FInally though after a while we come upon the Eureka Dunes, which is an odd sight to see. Its a very sureal location, and if we had arrived later we most likely would have camped:
However, we ate some lunch and then proceeded to climb up the Dunes (which almost killed me) to get a better view. Also under the sand about 6" it was really really cool so we all stuck our hands in the sand to cool down:
After leaving the Dunes, our plan was to get to Warm Springs for the night, but we had to go over Steel Pass first, the first of many passes that were planned on the trip. The road soon turned from sand washes to rocky stream bed to canyons:
Very picturesque and more importantly shaded spot:
Ok, time to go crawl over some rocks:
For the next mile or so, there were many small rock ledges to climb and some spots got pretty tight, but we managed just fine and did well i thought. These are a bunch of photos from that next mile:
Our Friends Mike and Rue began their journey to DV on Wednesday Morning (March 25). They spent the day driving down and seeing Titus Canyon amongst other things. Myself and Brittany did not get off work until about 5 pm wednesday where we promptly did a last minute cleanup and finish packing a few things (most was packed the week prior). We then hi-tailed it to DV in the truck and arrived at our camp spot (thanks to our friends for getting one earlier) at about 1:30 am.
So starts our Journey (sorry no pictures of the long dark 6.5 hr. drive to DV). Thursday morning (March 26), we all wake up do the regular breakfast thing and then go over a quick itinerary where i have already laid out some rough plans for the days ahead, including tons of off road throughout the northern and western parts of the park.
The first stop was Scotty's Castle, where we not only checked out the castle from the outside (you have to pay to tour the inside) but also checked into the park officially:
I won't bore you with the details of Scotty's Castle as its a huge landmark and you can read about it, but it was a very neat place.
We then took off north were we first stopped at Ubehebe Crater (unintented picture of that later) and then zoomed off to find a bit of dirt. We headed north to Crankshaft Junction where we promptly came over a crest of a hill at about 40 mph and dropped into a 1.5' deep hole and then bottomed out pretty bad. We stopped to check but there was no damage, at least not noticable (again sorry no pictures).
After crankshaft we headed west toward our first real destination the Eureka Dunes, however we first stopped at this old sulpher mine, and yes it smelled:
We then took off and headed down a bunch of roads with a bunch of washboard, and speaking of washboard, if you don't like it, stay out of DV, cause almost every dirt road in the park has the meanest and biggest washboard i've driven on in a long time.
FInally though after a while we come upon the Eureka Dunes, which is an odd sight to see. Its a very sureal location, and if we had arrived later we most likely would have camped:
However, we ate some lunch and then proceeded to climb up the Dunes (which almost killed me) to get a better view. Also under the sand about 6" it was really really cool so we all stuck our hands in the sand to cool down:
After leaving the Dunes, our plan was to get to Warm Springs for the night, but we had to go over Steel Pass first, the first of many passes that were planned on the trip. The road soon turned from sand washes to rocky stream bed to canyons:
Very picturesque and more importantly shaded spot:
Ok, time to go crawl over some rocks:
For the next mile or so, there were many small rock ledges to climb and some spots got pretty tight, but we managed just fine and did well i thought. These are a bunch of photos from that next mile:
Last edited:
chaos616
Adventurer
Me spotting for Mike in his Toyota Tacoma:
From this point the road turned to a nice smooth dirt two track where we made up some miles pretty quick occasionally stopping and taking photos or being hooligans:
Of course Brittany found a plant she liked:
Who needs an RTI ramp when you've got rocks:
Mikes turn, we all decided his truck looked more like a beached truck than a rock crawler:
Soon after there were a couple more twisty fun sections of slow rock crawling on the trail:
Finally we could see where we were going, but there was a long rocky trail in front of us (30 miles and up to 1' boulders) before we could get to camp:
Camp is at the base of the valley where the sand starts.
Finally we arrived in camp around 5 pm. Still light out. What was interesting was that it was a cloths optional camp/springs (i'm guessing more the springs but i don't think anyone cared). It was a very loose feeling place which was a nice relief. The atmosphere of the whole place was very chill and everyone seemed to be very friendly and cheerful.
Upon setting up camp, i was getting ready to investigate a squeak from the truck along with the carnage of the day which included the ruined bumpstops and the trashed bushings. However some college age kids (2 of them) came up to us all sweaty and very desperate looking and asked if we could help them out. They had driven with 3 other friends up a canyon across the way with their ford explorer, however the vehicle refused to move from where they parked it. The 3 others were still in the canyon and dark was approaching. Myself and Brittany hopped in the truck with all our tools and some water and headed up into the Canyon (about a 45 minute drive 1 way) to where the rest of them were.
The goal was to either save the people and leave the car, or get the car going so they could save themselves. After jacking the car up (I carry a hydraulic floor jack with me) i soon discovered that the shift linkage had come apart at the shifter in the car. Simplest fix was to (sorry if this sounds unsafe, as it is and i don't recommend anyone do it however we were running out of light fast and needed to get these kids off the mountain) climb under the car and shift the vehicle into gear with it running and someone in the drivers seat holding the brakes. I showed the owner of the car how to do it and gave them my small cresent wrench to use to shift. Once they got the hang of it, we followed them all the way back to the campsite where we arrived at about 8 and cooked dinner.
Overall i was glad we could save them and their car from the mountain and they were very interesting people to talk to, they were all in college and got together for spring break to come to warm springs and camp and hike.
Our camp taken by Rue as we were out on rescue mission at this point:
amgvr4
Adventurer
Looks like the trip went pretty good even with your few shake down issues. I didn't realize you were running straight bushings at the frame ends. That explains some of why you have had a hard time fully flexing out the front axle. Those EMF joints will make a big difference for the bind in your arms. They will also hold up much better! I love the way your truck dwarfed the Taco! It was soooo cute trying to flex out on the large rock! Seriously though, good job and keep it up!