penguincoder
Observer
Hi everyone, I am a bit new to this kind of outdoorsing, so i would like to throw out my notes on an overland vehicle here. I don't fully expect anyone to have anything useful to add, but I will appreciate any feedback from the local membership. I have owned a 4x4 before: it was a 1982 Jeep CJ7. As an experience, it was amazing. As a vehicle, it was total crap. I hate smelling like exhaust and gasoline, I hate removing the entire front hubs to replace rotors, the five speed (while better than most) sucked, the engine ran at 19 oil PSI and could barely get out of its own way up a hill... And it didn't need the keys to run. Lovely. So in true I-just-had-a-baby-and-I-need-to-sell-my-hobbies, I sold the Jeep. It's worth mentioning that I kept my MK4 Mini. Apparently that was the "good idea" at the time.
I am not going into the offroad community blind, rather, I have had many experiences using quads and the Jeep in question. I think I enjoyed it more so than any of my close friends and now I have an opportunity to jump back in full-force and I would like to take it.
I know what it's like to work on a car, even fruitlessly. I am moving up in the world. I like the idea of a luxurious offroader. Ever since my friends brought a Canadian AWD Ford Aerostar and we all lavished in the relative luxury while taming the same trails as the Jeep, I realized that offroading can be more sophisticated than gasoline exhause. And nicer to us old fogey dads.
I am going to buy a capable offroader for my next vehicle. I have a list of researched vehicles that I am considering... and a list of vehicles that are already off the list. I am a software developer by trade, and computers do not intimidate me in the least. I can pry them apart and gut the insides and put them all back together afterwards... And I have never worked myself into a corner I couldn't get out of later. I embrace computerization and prefer it.
My musts:
* Carburetion will not be tolerated.
* More-speed automatic is better than less-speeds automatic.
* Air suspension provides all of the benefits of a lift kit without any of the downsides.
* Passive keyless is a definite plus.
* Push button ignition is great.
* Heated seats or I will choose something else.
* 7 seats is not required, but it does help.
* Bluetooth phone, aux input, dashboard satellite navigation, phone apps, etc.
* Ability to carry two full-size spare tires. I think the stress of driving as far as northern Alaska will be helped if I know I have more than one spare, plus tire kits.
If my electronic desires cannot be sourced, they can be added aftermarket. Unless you are a 100-Series LandCruiser with built-in navigation. Then you are pretty much a soccer-mom van until the A/C is worthless.
My desire:
I am going to drive to Dead Horse at Prudhoe Bay. This is a thing that I have decided I can do in the summer with a little more trail experience. I intend to make several shorter trips to ensure that I have the necessary skills and that I wish to pursue this past-time. After that, I would like to drive to Ushuaia if my Spanish improves. I don't intend to take the most difficult path, but I don't want to be stranded, either. I am going to drive this vehicle for a while. My still-current vehicle (Subaru Impreza WRX) I have owned for 6 years and I owned the Jeep for 9 years. I like building a relationship with a car. This is not an easy choice for me. After a solid month of internet-based research, i'm still just as confused as when I started, but my budget is just a bit higher. If anyone has any real experiences they can share, please do. I still intend to have several rounds of in-seat driving time before I make a final decision. I will not be including "expedition gear" in my cost of ownership, since every vehicle on the list will require these items. These are things like a winch, roof rack, jerries, sliders, protection, drawers, etc.
Disclosure: The LR4 is my most favorite pick thus far, and that's why this thread is in the Land Rover forum. There are no appropriate 'Getting Started in Overland Travel' or 'Which Vehicle' forums to choose. I apologize beforehand if this was an imprudent choice.
I think it might be helpful to disclose what is _not_ on the menu, first.
# 80 Series Land Cruiser. It's old and doesn't have a V8.
# 100 Series Land Cruiser. This is a very capable offroader. There is nothing wrong with it, other than the necessary reconditioning. I can perform all of the reconditioning -- down to the short block if necessary -- and it might be fun... But this truck is long in tooth and it's only "okay" inside. I could totally fit an aftermarket passive keyless entry, push button ignition, and built-in satellite navigation... And at the end of the day it's a 10 year old vehicle with more than 100k miles on it.
# 200 Series Land Cruiser. It looked nice initially, especially with that 5.7L V8. I don't think it is the same kind of vehicle as the 100 series. It is at least a lot heavier than the older ones. Plus, I can't buy one with less than 80K miles and it's _still_ $40K. This seems like a lot for such a truck.
# Tacoma. It's not a HiLux, and it's North American market, only.
# Ford F-150 Aluminum Body truck. It doesn't have an 8 speed automatic, even with the amazing twin-turbo V6.
# Dodge Power Wagon. Super nice truck. No 8 speed and it's a 3/4 ton truck, which I can't justify driving around day-to-day.
# Ford Explorer. Too small in the back.
# Ford Econoline. I am not driving a van.
# Nissan. The insides haven't been updated since the '90s. Nothing wrong technically, just not nice inside.
# Chevy. What?
# Honda. Nothing interests me.
This brings me to my remaining list. These are vehicles I feel like have some semi-serious off-road capabilities and some on-road comforts.
# Land Rover LR4. Great looking truck. Probably the best choice, but fitting common aftermarket tires will be challenging due to the stock wheel sizes. Otherwise ticks all the marks. If I go balls-to-the-wall, I can buy a new-new one with an 8-speed auto, but that financially restricts some choices afterwards... It can ford 850mm of water stock. LR also has Terrain Response, which is a fully electronic/computerized response to offroading. It selects when to low-range, diff-lock, and all of the other settings for you. That's pretty nice.
# Land Rover Range Rover Sport Supercharged. 2009+ model year. I have always wanted 500+ HP and this will do it. Probably nicer to drive with most of the offroadability of the LR4, but in a smaller footprint. Terrain Response.
# Toyota 4-Runner 5th Gen Trail Edition - It has most of the off-road tick-marks with electronic aids to supplement the rest. Seems to be big and light enough. The really annoying thing is that the limited has push-button ignition and no 4wd. The 4wd has none of the high-end luxuries that the limited has. However, it's a Toyota, with all that is implied from that statement.
# Mercedes G-Class. I can't really get a nice one of those. My budget restricts me to about $40k. I might be able to get an okay one for that without electrical gremlins. It requires nothing other that tires and expedition gear. That is nice. Maybe a sway-bar disconnect. Maybe. However, there is genuine concern that I might not want or be able to afford to drive the thing after I purchase it.
# 2014 Dodge Ram 1500 Outdoorsman. It has a nice 5.7L Hemi, 8 speed auto, locking diffs, and an on-demand air suspension that lifts the truck out of the way when needed. It can have heated seats, 4 doors and a full size pickup bed for less than my desired budget. It also has the downside of holding groceries in the bed, being the size of the Hindenburg, and not being anywhere near as nice as any of the others in the list on the inside. Capable though. Very capable.
# 2014 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon. This model year introduced heated, leather seats. Still has the center console window switches, though. And it's Chrysler on the inside. Requires no modifications other than expedition gear, but it is a bit small. It's the only convertible and I think that some of my familia might like a convertible.
# 2011 or newer Toyota FJ Cruiser. It's small, which I don't like, but I do like everything else about it. ATRAC, e-locking rear diff, 400W AC outlet inside, suicide doors, classy retro styling up front, upright windscreen, no suspension modifications for big tires. But it's small. I doubt this will do well without a cumbersome trailer to tow all of the things I require for my cooking and my girls.
I think that sums up my preliminary list of trucks I have selected. Most of them don't require many, if any, modifications. I don't believe in adding a giant lift kit to your Jeep Rubicon simply because that's what Good Ole Boys Do. I have a very specific set of needs that must be fulfilled, all of which does not require a gigantic lift kit, aftermarket superchargers, dukes of hazzard horns, etc. I want to go places. Comfortably. Reliably.
My favorite features:
# Heated seats. Cooled is a plus, but not required.
# Passive keyless entry. Hotness.
# Push button ignition. Keys are so bourgeois.
# Rotary gear selection. There is no reason to have legacy column or floor shifters any more. There are no mechanical linkages any more.
# 8 Speed Automatics. I have never owned an automatic in all of my 14 different vehicles, but if I should go for an auto, I should go for broke on gears. Plus the +2 MPG is great from my perspective: I hate to waste resources.
# Locking diffs. I realize that almost all of the Land Rover candidates do not have the HD package, but I will make do. Having one or more would be really nice for when I get stuck up the creek and really need some mechanical help.
# Touring range. Big tanks are really helpful. Plus cargo capacity. I need to be able to carry food, fuel, and people over a distance that is not comfortable sans filling stations.
Can anyone post any pros or cons to any of the vehicles listed? Or not listed! I have done so much research it's just a giant waffle at this point. I need to drive every one of my candidates (preferably multiple copies) before I make any final decision, of course. But for now, I would appreciate the opinions of those who have gone to both ends of the financial extreme and what their experiences might be.
I am not going into the offroad community blind, rather, I have had many experiences using quads and the Jeep in question. I think I enjoyed it more so than any of my close friends and now I have an opportunity to jump back in full-force and I would like to take it.
I know what it's like to work on a car, even fruitlessly. I am moving up in the world. I like the idea of a luxurious offroader. Ever since my friends brought a Canadian AWD Ford Aerostar and we all lavished in the relative luxury while taming the same trails as the Jeep, I realized that offroading can be more sophisticated than gasoline exhause. And nicer to us old fogey dads.
I am going to buy a capable offroader for my next vehicle. I have a list of researched vehicles that I am considering... and a list of vehicles that are already off the list. I am a software developer by trade, and computers do not intimidate me in the least. I can pry them apart and gut the insides and put them all back together afterwards... And I have never worked myself into a corner I couldn't get out of later. I embrace computerization and prefer it.
My musts:
* Carburetion will not be tolerated.
* More-speed automatic is better than less-speeds automatic.
* Air suspension provides all of the benefits of a lift kit without any of the downsides.
* Passive keyless is a definite plus.
* Push button ignition is great.
* Heated seats or I will choose something else.
* 7 seats is not required, but it does help.
* Bluetooth phone, aux input, dashboard satellite navigation, phone apps, etc.
* Ability to carry two full-size spare tires. I think the stress of driving as far as northern Alaska will be helped if I know I have more than one spare, plus tire kits.
If my electronic desires cannot be sourced, they can be added aftermarket. Unless you are a 100-Series LandCruiser with built-in navigation. Then you are pretty much a soccer-mom van until the A/C is worthless.
My desire:
I am going to drive to Dead Horse at Prudhoe Bay. This is a thing that I have decided I can do in the summer with a little more trail experience. I intend to make several shorter trips to ensure that I have the necessary skills and that I wish to pursue this past-time. After that, I would like to drive to Ushuaia if my Spanish improves. I don't intend to take the most difficult path, but I don't want to be stranded, either. I am going to drive this vehicle for a while. My still-current vehicle (Subaru Impreza WRX) I have owned for 6 years and I owned the Jeep for 9 years. I like building a relationship with a car. This is not an easy choice for me. After a solid month of internet-based research, i'm still just as confused as when I started, but my budget is just a bit higher. If anyone has any real experiences they can share, please do. I still intend to have several rounds of in-seat driving time before I make a final decision. I will not be including "expedition gear" in my cost of ownership, since every vehicle on the list will require these items. These are things like a winch, roof rack, jerries, sliders, protection, drawers, etc.
Disclosure: The LR4 is my most favorite pick thus far, and that's why this thread is in the Land Rover forum. There are no appropriate 'Getting Started in Overland Travel' or 'Which Vehicle' forums to choose. I apologize beforehand if this was an imprudent choice.
I think it might be helpful to disclose what is _not_ on the menu, first.
# 80 Series Land Cruiser. It's old and doesn't have a V8.
# 100 Series Land Cruiser. This is a very capable offroader. There is nothing wrong with it, other than the necessary reconditioning. I can perform all of the reconditioning -- down to the short block if necessary -- and it might be fun... But this truck is long in tooth and it's only "okay" inside. I could totally fit an aftermarket passive keyless entry, push button ignition, and built-in satellite navigation... And at the end of the day it's a 10 year old vehicle with more than 100k miles on it.
# 200 Series Land Cruiser. It looked nice initially, especially with that 5.7L V8. I don't think it is the same kind of vehicle as the 100 series. It is at least a lot heavier than the older ones. Plus, I can't buy one with less than 80K miles and it's _still_ $40K. This seems like a lot for such a truck.
# Tacoma. It's not a HiLux, and it's North American market, only.
# Ford F-150 Aluminum Body truck. It doesn't have an 8 speed automatic, even with the amazing twin-turbo V6.
# Dodge Power Wagon. Super nice truck. No 8 speed and it's a 3/4 ton truck, which I can't justify driving around day-to-day.
# Ford Explorer. Too small in the back.
# Ford Econoline. I am not driving a van.
# Nissan. The insides haven't been updated since the '90s. Nothing wrong technically, just not nice inside.
# Chevy. What?
# Honda. Nothing interests me.
This brings me to my remaining list. These are vehicles I feel like have some semi-serious off-road capabilities and some on-road comforts.
# Land Rover LR4. Great looking truck. Probably the best choice, but fitting common aftermarket tires will be challenging due to the stock wheel sizes. Otherwise ticks all the marks. If I go balls-to-the-wall, I can buy a new-new one with an 8-speed auto, but that financially restricts some choices afterwards... It can ford 850mm of water stock. LR also has Terrain Response, which is a fully electronic/computerized response to offroading. It selects when to low-range, diff-lock, and all of the other settings for you. That's pretty nice.
# Land Rover Range Rover Sport Supercharged. 2009+ model year. I have always wanted 500+ HP and this will do it. Probably nicer to drive with most of the offroadability of the LR4, but in a smaller footprint. Terrain Response.
# Toyota 4-Runner 5th Gen Trail Edition - It has most of the off-road tick-marks with electronic aids to supplement the rest. Seems to be big and light enough. The really annoying thing is that the limited has push-button ignition and no 4wd. The 4wd has none of the high-end luxuries that the limited has. However, it's a Toyota, with all that is implied from that statement.
# Mercedes G-Class. I can't really get a nice one of those. My budget restricts me to about $40k. I might be able to get an okay one for that without electrical gremlins. It requires nothing other that tires and expedition gear. That is nice. Maybe a sway-bar disconnect. Maybe. However, there is genuine concern that I might not want or be able to afford to drive the thing after I purchase it.
# 2014 Dodge Ram 1500 Outdoorsman. It has a nice 5.7L Hemi, 8 speed auto, locking diffs, and an on-demand air suspension that lifts the truck out of the way when needed. It can have heated seats, 4 doors and a full size pickup bed for less than my desired budget. It also has the downside of holding groceries in the bed, being the size of the Hindenburg, and not being anywhere near as nice as any of the others in the list on the inside. Capable though. Very capable.
# 2014 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon. This model year introduced heated, leather seats. Still has the center console window switches, though. And it's Chrysler on the inside. Requires no modifications other than expedition gear, but it is a bit small. It's the only convertible and I think that some of my familia might like a convertible.
# 2011 or newer Toyota FJ Cruiser. It's small, which I don't like, but I do like everything else about it. ATRAC, e-locking rear diff, 400W AC outlet inside, suicide doors, classy retro styling up front, upright windscreen, no suspension modifications for big tires. But it's small. I doubt this will do well without a cumbersome trailer to tow all of the things I require for my cooking and my girls.
I think that sums up my preliminary list of trucks I have selected. Most of them don't require many, if any, modifications. I don't believe in adding a giant lift kit to your Jeep Rubicon simply because that's what Good Ole Boys Do. I have a very specific set of needs that must be fulfilled, all of which does not require a gigantic lift kit, aftermarket superchargers, dukes of hazzard horns, etc. I want to go places. Comfortably. Reliably.
My favorite features:
# Heated seats. Cooled is a plus, but not required.
# Passive keyless entry. Hotness.
# Push button ignition. Keys are so bourgeois.
# Rotary gear selection. There is no reason to have legacy column or floor shifters any more. There are no mechanical linkages any more.
# 8 Speed Automatics. I have never owned an automatic in all of my 14 different vehicles, but if I should go for an auto, I should go for broke on gears. Plus the +2 MPG is great from my perspective: I hate to waste resources.
# Locking diffs. I realize that almost all of the Land Rover candidates do not have the HD package, but I will make do. Having one or more would be really nice for when I get stuck up the creek and really need some mechanical help.
# Touring range. Big tanks are really helpful. Plus cargo capacity. I need to be able to carry food, fuel, and people over a distance that is not comfortable sans filling stations.
Can anyone post any pros or cons to any of the vehicles listed? Or not listed! I have done so much research it's just a giant waffle at this point. I need to drive every one of my candidates (preferably multiple copies) before I make any final decision, of course. But for now, I would appreciate the opinions of those who have gone to both ends of the financial extreme and what their experiences might be.
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