Pelfreybilt Off-Road ::: Product Info, Sales, Support, Etc.

[bkg]

Facts are flimsy at this point, but it does sound like "seeking investors" was a cover story. Perhaps they were trying to get their bank to extend a loan or increase a credit limit, something where cash on hand or flow would make a huge difference while the various refunds would have been draining their account balance.

One of the mods on TW has stated he knew 100% they were seeking investors, so I'll assume that story has merit.

My suspicion is that they got overextended and a note was called that they couldn't pay. That's as far as I can speculate, though...

 

[DaveInDenver]

One of the mods on TW has stated he knew 100% they were seeking investors, so I'll assume that story has merit.

My suspicion is that they got overextended and a note was called that they couldn't pay. That's as far as I can speculate, though...

There's a lot unknown, bits of information that need to be filled in. If I was speculating it's that they personally backstopped the business. So the "seeking investors" may have been them liquidating their personal assets, e.g. homestead on their house, personal bankruptcy, and keeping the business assets. Whether that was intentional or desperation, I dunno. But if they already had mixed personal and business extensively (e.g. trucks, tools, computers all business owned seems likely) it would make sense to keep the equity on their house and leave their mortgage and personal CC companies holding the bag with nothing of value.

 

[sn_85]

Hence my point. You have come to a conclusion based on what facts, specifically? The changing of names was never validated in 75+ pages of thread on TW. But people are running with it like it's Gospel truth.

You've also latched onto the "anyone who defends them is complicit!" story as well.

This is the largest problem with social media - people refuse to wait for facts... facts aren't fun... they don't feed emotion... they don't feed a narrative... they don't make us feel good/vindicated/etc.

The blaming of customers, as an example, is a clear manipulation of what was actually stated on their now infamous facebook post... The reality is that social media matters... and a group of vocal haters can cause a major issue for small companies. Happens ALL THE TIME, whether justified or not. So if they were in a precarious situation, social media sentiment absolutely could impact a go-forward strategy.

Point is - NONE OF US KNOW THE TRUTH... But too many of us are all too happy to crucify people on a moments notice... because it's more fun and emotionally gratifying to join the mob than it is to wait, listen, dig for facts and form an informed opinion.

So let it play out... if it was intentional, that will come to the surface... but if it wasn't... then I would also ask who amongst us would be the first to admit fault and do what ever is needed to repair the internet mob damage... I suspect not a single person will step up to the plate of helping repair reputational damage they helped cause...

Here are some facts for you

1. They took on hundreds (if not more) of orders which were not filled
2. There are many customers who wait 6+ months for a product that will never be delivered despite promises that "it was coming"
3. There are customers who sent 100% of their hard earned money to Pelfreybilt up front so it sat there as a burning hole in their pocket waiting a product which will never be delivered
4. A few employees were let go a few weeks before they filed for bankruptcy
5. The Pelfrey's declared bankruptcy
6. They issued a statement stating there were "investors" willing to invest millions into the company but due to internet vitriol from customers complaining and filing charge backs the "investors" pulled out
7. The customers will never get a dime back from Pelfreybilt, they must now file a complaint, charge back, whatever with their banks, CC company, or PP. There is no guarantee what they may get back. They could get a full return, partial, or none. It is also a huge waste of time and burden on their end.

So those are the FACTS without any rumor, conjecture, bias, or emotion. It still makes them a ************ company. I don't care what happened behind the scenes, in the end they FAILED to deliver on their end of the promise. To hundreds, if not thousands, of customers. They're scum, nothing more and nothing less. My feeling is that the off-road community will not be too friendly to the Pelfrey's, especially if seen out camping, off-roading, or whatever.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Here are some facts for you

1. They took on hundreds (if not more) of orders which were not filled
2. There are many customers who wait 6+ months for a product that will never be delivered despite promises that "it was coming"
3. There are customers who sent 100% of their hard earned money to Pelfreybilt up front so it sat there as a burning hole in their pocket waiting a product which will never be delivered
4. A few employees were let go a few weeks before they filed for bankruptcy
5. The Pelfrey's declared bankruptcy
6. They issued a statement stating there were "investors" willing to invest millions into the company but due to internet vitriol from customers complaining and filing charge backs the "investors" pulled out
7. The customers will never get a dime back from Pelfreybilt, they must now file a complaint, charge back, whatever with their banks, CC company, or PP. There is no guarantee what they may get back. They could get a full return, partial, or none. It is also a huge waste of time and burden on their end.

So those are the FACTS without any rumor, conjecture, bias, or emotion.

I believe that there is not much in dispute there.

It still makes them a ************ company.

That part seems pretty much true, there was apparently a lot to support that it was a poorly set up and run company. But while it was churning they seemed to make good stuff and at least answer the phones, which is better than some companies even when they were "good" (ahem All Pro).

I don't care what happened behind the scenes, in the end they FAILED to deliver on their end of the promise. To hundreds, if not thousands, of customers. They're scum, nothing more and nothing less. My feeling is that the off-road community will not be too friendly to the Pelfrey's, especially if seen out camping, off-roading, or whatever.

That part is opinion. I don't know if I would have liked them personally or not. That's the part that I think is the really shifty part. If you're gonna sell your business on the personalities of the people in it then you can't be surprised when things go sideways that it also drags you into the mud. An example of the opposite is Marlin Crawler. His company is intimately tied to him and it's been solid for years, but even though he and Big Mike and all his guys are beyond Godsends on the trail he still runs a business that doesn't rely on that. It sells on time, at a fair price with an honest lead time, e.g. he only takes orders on in stock, emails when backorders come into stock or tells you up front how long building an Ultimate will take.

 

[bkg]

I believe that there is not much in dispute there.

That part seems pretty much true, there was apparently a lot to support that it was a poorly set up and run company. But while it was churning they seemed to make good stuff and at least answer the phones, which is better than some companies even when they were "good" (ahem All Pro).

oddly, I've never had any issues with communications @ All Pro... I'm probably just lucky?

That part is opinion. I don't know if I would have liked them personally or not. That's the part that I think is the really shifty part. If you're gonna sell your business on the personalities of the people in it then you can't be surprised when things go sideways that it also drags you into the mud. An example of the opposite is Marlin Crawler. His company is intimately tied to him and it's been solid for years, but even though he and Big Mike and all his guys are beyond Godsends on the trail he still runs a business that doesn't rely on that. It sells on time, at a fair price with an honest lead time, e.g. he only takes orders on in stock, emails when backorders come into stock or tells you up front how long building an Ultimate will take.

Marlin has had numerous delivery issues over the years, but he's weathered the storm pretty well. I'd have a hard time saying they "sell on time," per se... I waited 6 months for an ultimate crawler in '00... Didn't care, was happy with the result (didn't need it anyway).

 

[bkg]

Here are some facts for you

1. They took on hundreds (if not more) of orders which were not filled
2. There are many customers who wait 6+ months for a product that will never be delivered despite promises that "it was coming"
3. There are customers who sent 100% of their hard earned money to Pelfreybilt up front so it sat there as a burning hole in their pocket waiting a product which will never be delivered
4. A few employees were let go a few weeks before they filed for bankruptcy
5. The Pelfrey's declared bankruptcy
6. They issued a statement stating there were "investors" willing to invest millions into the company but due to internet vitriol from customers complaining and filing charge backs the "investors" pulled out
7. The customers will never get a dime back from Pelfreybilt, they must now file a complaint, charge back, whatever with their banks, CC company, or PP. There is no guarantee what they may get back. They could get a full return, partial, or none. It is also a huge waste of time and burden on their end.

This is the "what happened"

So those are the FACTS without any rumor, conjecture, bias, or emotion. It still makes them a ************ company. I don't care what happened behind the scenes, in the end they FAILED to deliver on their end of the promise. To hundreds, if not thousands, of customers. They're scum, nothing more and nothing less. My feeling is that the off-road community will not be too friendly to the Pelfrey's, especially if seen out camping, off-roading, or whatever.

This is supposedly the "why did it happen?"... but it's not factual, it opinion based... and that is what I'm challenging people to put aside until it can go in the above "what happened" list. Any person can put together a list of events and turn them into a story... regardless of the reality behind the list of events. Just let it play out and the "why" will come to light.... you may well be 100% correct.. you may well be very wrong...

 

[DaveInDenver]

There you go, @bkg, it's all a matter of personal experience. The only time Marlin ever missed with me was due to a delayed batch of bearings (I think anyway) and he gave me the option of holding on or getting a refund. Basically did what I would expect and ended up beating his revised delivery by a week. I do think there's a bit of being realistic with your expectations. If it was ARB being flaky it's one thing vs a small shop managing hiccups. To me it's mostly about being honest, if you can't do it or something changes, just say so.

 

[bkg]

There you go, @bkg, it's all a matter of personal experience. The only time Marlin ever missed with me was due to a delayed batch of bearings (I think anyway) and he gave me the option of holding on or getting a refund. Basically did what I would expect and ended up beating his revised delivery by a week. I do think there's a bit of being realistic with your expectations. If it was ARB being flaky it's one thing vs a small shop managing hiccups. To me it's mostly about being honest, if you can't do it or something changes, just say so.

Yup. Agreed - 100%.

There have been incidents in the past where a vendor has gone dark... People get pissed and start spreading internet rumors... only to later find out that a family member died or was hospitalized... or in at least one case I know of... went very, very ill. But walking that stuff back is very hard... once it's on the intertoobs, it's permanent.

 

[DaveInDenver]

True dat. I will say though that unless you're a one-man shop asking someone to put a note on your webpage that you're dealing with a personal matter would be good business practice. That goes towards how well you've managed your company. Some people can't let go when they grow beyond just them and end up micromanaging to the point that they are still a single point of failure in the company. The speed of the Internet mill cuts both ways. As easy as it is for a rumor to start it's also just as easy if you're upfront to stop it from starting in the first place with a timely email or forum post.

BTW, that I believe did happen (a family member illness or death) with Pelfrey a couple of years ago, didn't it? People are understanding if you give them the chance to be.

 

[phsycle]

...BTW, that I believe did happen (a family member illness or death) with Pelyfrey a couple of years ago, didn't it? People are understanding if you give them the chance to be.

I know people have their string of bad luck. But Ch 7 in 2001, Ch 7 in 2009, Family issue, now this. People will be understanding. Up to a certain point. Whether it's your fault or not, it's probably just time to call it quits either way, and stick to your nine-to-fiver.

 

[Tex68w]

Hence my point. You have come to a conclusion based on what facts, specifically? The changing of names was never validated in 75+ pages of thread on TW. But people are running with it like it's Gospel truth.

You've also latched onto the "anyone who defends them is complicit!" story as well.

This is the largest problem with social media - people refuse to wait for facts... facts aren't fun... they don't feed emotion... they don't feed a narrative... they don't make us feel good/vindicated/etc.

The blaming of customers, as an example, is a clear manipulation of what was actually stated on their now infamous facebook post... The reality is that social media matters... and a group of vocal haters can cause a major issue for small companies. Happens ALL THE TIME, whether justified or not. So if they were in a precarious situation, social media sentiment absolutely could impact a go-forward strategy.

Point is - NONE OF US KNOW THE TRUTH... But too many of us are all too happy to crucify people on a moments notice... because it's more fun and emotionally gratifying to join the mob than it is to wait, listen, dig for facts and form an informed opinion.

So let it play out... if it was intentional, that will come to the surface... but if it wasn't... then I would also ask who amongst us would be the first to admit fault and do what ever is needed to repair the internet mob damage... I suspect not a single person will step up to the plate of helping repair reputational damage they helped cause...

I understand your argument about waiting for facts to pass judgement and most people reacting out of sheer emotion and without rationality, but I don't agree with your stance. They have both mismanaged their personal lives prior to this venture and filed for bankruptcy and it is obvious they did it again, fool me once shame on you..........

All of the facts will likely never come out and you know that, there's always two sides to a story, but there's simply no way to spin this in a good light for them and they've done nothing since it broke to help themselves or any of those impacted by their actions. In my opinion they are scam artists and they knowingly and purposefully defrauded an entire industry/community and I believe that will be proven and brought to light in the court proceedings. Thieves are some of the lowest scum on earth and they deserve no quarter, bleeding hearts disagree but that's why they get taken for the fools that they are as well.

Everyone here is entitled to their personal opinion on the matter and I respect that, but don't tell me how I should feel about the situation. I have seen similar scenarios play out before and it's almost always the same outcome. They are $hit bags in my book and you nor anyone else will sway that opinion.

 

[sn_85]

This is the "what happened"



This is supposedly the "why did it happen?"... but it's not factual, it opinion based... and that is what I'm challenging people to put aside until it can go in the above "what happened" list. Any person can put together a list of events and turn them into a story... regardless of the reality behind the list of events. Just let it play out and the "why" will come to light.... you may well be 100% correct.. you may well be very wrong...

I think you're arguing semantics here. Which isn't helpful nor does it answer any questions. I get your point, the lynch mob mentality doesn't help either and the truth may or may not come out eventually. My guess is that the truth will only come out if there is some sort of investigation done by state or federal authorities. The process of that is over my head. Everyone has questions. That only lead to rumors and conjecture.

You know what would have stopped and quelled ALL the rumors? If Tyler and Satin were HONEST and upfront about everything that happened. Had they done that when the issues became a big problem then maybe the internet would have been more understanding and supportive of them. Maybe they would have given them more of a chance. Instead Tyler and Satin stayed quiet and didn't say anything up until last week when they dropped the bomb on everyone. They still haven't answered any questions of the why. That left the mob angry and thirsty for blood. So you know what, everyone rumor, every opinion, every piece of shade thrown there way is DESERVED because of how they handled the situation. ******** in life (and business) happens and it's how you handle it that matters. They handled it in the worse possible way, they kept quiet, dragged it out, and then shut the door without saying a damn thing. Oh yeah they also didn't refund anyone their money and filed for bankruptcy leaving every customer out to dry. So yeah, they deserve to get flamed to the maximal extent.

 

[bkg]

I understand your argument about waiting for facts to pass judgement and most people reacting out of sheer emotion and without rationality, but I don't agree with your stance. They have both mismanaged their personal lives prior to this venture and filed for bankruptcy and it is obvious they did it again, fool me once shame on you..........

All of the facts will likely never come out and you know that, there's always two sides to a story, but there's simply no way to spin this in a good light for them and they've done nothing since it broke to help themselves or any of those impacted by their actions. In my opinion they are scam artists and they knowingly and purposefully defrauded an entire industry/community and I believe that will be proven and brought to light in the court proceedings. Thieves are some of the lowest scum on earth and they deserve no quarter, bleeding hearts disagree but that's why they get taken for the fools that they are as well.

Everyone here is entitled to their personal opinion on the matter and I respect that, but don't tell me how I should feel about the situation. I have seen similar scenarios play out before and it's almost always the same outcome. They are $hit bags in my book and you nor anyone else will sway that opinion.

Thanks for proving my point, again.

Who is telling you how to feel about anything? Don’t ****** how you feel - how people act is different.

Funny also how many people are throwing accusations quickly forget about the fact that there were, apparently, very good years of business and many happy customers. So many people were “fans” until two weeks ago.. now they are the first to grab the pitchforks.

So again, than you for validating my original post.

 

[Tex68w]

Thanks for proving my point, again.

Who is telling you how to feel about anything? Don’t ****** how you feel - how people act is different.

Funny also how many people are throwing accusations quickly forget about the fact that there were, apparently, very good years of business and many happy customers. So many people were “fans” until two weeks ago.. now they are the first to grab the pitchforks.

So again, than you for validating my original post.

The only thing being validated is your blatant disregard for their transgressions that can already be proved which are inexcusable. They straight up screwed people with full knowledge of their future intentions towards the end. You can sit here and pretend be a voice of reason all you want, it doesn't change the fact that what we already know for certain is more than enough to label them as crooks. Your logic is on par with the mass murders neighbor being interviewed stating how they never saw it coming and how he was such a nice and quiet guy that never bothered anybody. I don't give a rat's ass what they did or how successful they were prior to the most recent turn of events, that's null and void and counts for nothing at this point.

The only blame that can possibly be laid at the feet of the customers here (debatable) are those that allowed them to have their money in full for six months to a year plus while continually being sold a bill of goods about delivery dates on a phantom product and continually allowing them to be put off indefinitely. Again, this can only be chalked up to a tough lesson for most and the further erosion of trust and honor within society. Everyone involved should attempt to get back whatever they can from their CC and/or bank because they won't be seeing a dime from the Pelfrey's.

 

[bkg]

The only thing being validated is your blatant disregard for their transgressions that can already be proved which are inexcusable. They straight up screwed people with full knowledge of their future intentions towards the end. You can sit here and pretend be a voice of reason all you want, it doesn't change the fact that what we already know for certain is more than enough to label them as crooks. Your logic is on par with the mass murders neighbor being interviewed stating how they never saw it coming and how he was such a nice and quiet guy that never bothered anybody. I don't give a rat's ass what they did or how successful they were prior to the most recent turn of events, that's null and void and counts for nothing at this point.

The only blame that can possibly be laid at the feet of the customers here (debatable) are those that allowed them to have their money in full for six months to a year plus while continually being sold a bill of goods about delivery dates on a phantom product and continually allowing them to be put off indefinitely. Again, this can only be chalked up to a tough lesson for most and the further erosion of trust and honor within society. Everyone involved should attempt to get back whatever they can from their CC and/or bank because they won't be seeing a dime from the Pelfrey's.

Relax cowboy... let the facts work themselves out before you have an aneurysm.