Pikemans M101 A2 slow Expo/ Base camp trailer build.

[Pikeman]

For being a small trailer, I think your setup will work fine. Personally I would have put the diagonal a-frame under the chassis for less fatigue on the welds and more material to weld to. If you look at car hauler trailers and the nicer utility trailers, you'll see the tongue is under the main frame/deck. It's usually referred to a "Wrap Around Tongue". Usually these diagonal channel sections go under the frame all the way back near the axle. This increases stability when towing and fights the forces of nature that are pushing down at the two pieces joined together. For example... Take a pencil and break it in half. Now tape the two halves back together and see how little force is required to break at the joint. Now stack one half on top of the other and tape them together and see how much more pressure it takes to break the joint.

Either way, it looks good and should be fine since you're most likely not going to overload the trailer. The only other issue I see is the shock mount gussetts. They'll most likely be fine since shocks only put as much load on the mount as they do when you're stroking them by hand, but if the shock gets bottomed out, it can push that mount down, and the horizontal gussets can shear off due to their design of a straight butt joint in it's weakest plane. If you take this trailer out on trails and it's loaded pretty good, coming off a rock could bottom out the shock and cause the mount to shear right off. I'd add a vertical gusset under each shock mount to increase the shear strength of the mount. It's easy and cheap insurance.

I agree 100% on adding another gusset vertically under the shock mount. I do not entirely agree with you on the tongue. If you look at the major manufacturers of the off-road trailers and tear drops the tongue is on same plane as the frame and part of the frame. Usually by cutting a wedge out and rewelding once bent inwards to make the angle. While the weld now becomes stronger than the metal they have created a weak spot on the side they bent(outer edge). Now look at cargo trailers my other major manufacturers and rental companies. Most trailers with under a 3k rating have just a single square tube that make up the tongue. If this was a trailer designed to carry a few thousand pounds than sure the "Aussie rules" tongue design would make more sense. However if all the revered/ tauted forum sponsors vednors on here that people praise for the best quality feel it adequate for their Off-road trailers to have tongue in plane with their frames then it will be fine on my trailer.

In my tongue the piece that is carrying the vertical load is the reciever tube that is welded and goes through the reinforced front cross member and welded and supported in the rear at the second. The sides of the triangle are for lateral stability and also add a little to the vertical stability. I find it very difficult to believe that making the frame and tongue one solid piece is weaker than smaller size channel held to the frame by 4 bolts underneath. If I had butt welded the entire tongue to the front cross member I would be worried and agree with your Pencil analogy, or if I had poor welds that did not penetrate properly. To take your pencil analogy and apply it properly think of it this way. Hold the pencil by it eraser on the edge of a table and push down on the other end suspended in air. Little to no force(butt welded to front of frame) Now take the same pencil place 1/3 on the table and trap the eraser end(2nd cross member) and at the edge of the table(goes through front cross memeber) and try to push down(my tongue design) wont budge without excessive force.

 

[Pikeman]

Guess no one told these manufacturers they had to put their tongue under the frame so it wont break/ fail.

 

[skersfan]

In honesty both work, but there is far more welding and fitting in doing on an even run. Putting the tongue under the trailer is far easier to do, but normally does as good of job. Less actual welded area. Also the solid frame looks cleaner to most. I have always built my trailers with the tongue incorporated into the frame, but the last one I welded it below the main frame. Nearly a third of the time to build it as one piece.

 

[Pikeman]

I know both work. I also know that a good penetrating weld is stronger than the metal itself, just get frustrated with people saying it wont work or is wrong. If either I or my fab guys welds were non-penetrating bubble gum welds or it was entirely butt welded to the front I would be concerned. Time and use is only way we will tell how it will hold up. Hoping to wire it up next week, at least the lights and brakes since they are all I have at this point. I will also need to get my truck wired for the 7 pin plug. Unfortunatley I am not smart when it comes to electrical so will need to have someone do it for me. Great at running wires and doing lay out but never do the connections, to many years being assistant to my brother(certified Mobile and also Commercial Electrician) who always had me run wire but never taught me the why, where purpose or theory. Yes I do know how to use a crimper...LOL

 

[skersfan]

With the differences of all the Japanese vehicles I stay away from wiring the 7 prong if I can, the rest of the trailer is a piece of cake.

In honsty the reason the triangle is placed below the main frame is for two reasons, building the main box is easier and less chance of warping, and the triangle below, is much easier and quicker. I spent a couple of weeks working with Big Tex trailers years ago. That was their theroy anyway.

 

[Pikeman]

The 7 prong RV plug is to provide the electric brake circuit and also a power/ charging circuit for the on board battery I plan on adding. The vehicle side plug I have is a 7 pin RV with a flat 4/5 connector below. This will allow me to connect most trailer types. I know that the 5 and 6 pin rounds are not as common as the flat 4 or the 7 pin RV. I am aware that not all 7 pin connectors follow the same color codes and can cause issue if I connect to a different trailer and might need to swap a wire or two. Since I am a GM guy at heart and plan on getting a HD2500 in next year or two I will probably follow GM's 7 pin coding.

 

[Dirtytires]

You can splice into the four wire harness for the trailer in order to get your brakes powered. I wanted to do the same with mine.
I would need to change the axle and I am not willing to do that. I like the uniqueness of mine. one of a kind..
where is the box at?

 

[Pikeman]

You can splice into the four wire harness for the trailer in order to get your brakes powered. I wanted to do the same with mine.
I would need to change the axle and I am not willing to do that. I like the uniqueness of mine. one of a kind..
where is the box at?

The box is standing on edge in my garage. I wanted to take as little as I could to the shop to weld the tongue and moutn the axle. I will do most of the wiring and then take the box and mount it. I am putting small 3/4 inch LED marker lights in each corner of the box.

 

[Pikeman]

Well the chasis modifications are complete and I pulled it home last night. My neighbor got home at the same time and helped me lift the box onto the chasis. I still need to modify the box however for now it will work as I build funds and develop my plans for the rest of the build. The box will be painted white at a later date to match the tow vehicle.

Moving from driveway to garage(hence safety chains/lights not hooked up) for photo op

Closer look at tongue and tongue box.

Look down both sides, as you can see it is near perfect match width wise for my 4Runner.

Wheels are Tacoma steel wheels for now with worn out(free to me 255/85 KM1)

 

[skersfan]

Looking good Pikeman, sorry I did not get out there today, and the FJ did not qualify, so will most likely miss Friday to. Hope you had a good time.

 

[Dirtytires]

Where in teh world dod you get that Basket and them lights from? I like the tow rig..

 

[Mark Harley]

Pikeman:

The new tounge looks great! Ilike the smooth transition to the frame.
Nothing hanging down under the frame. I see you went with safety cables too.
Good choice I like mine alot. Great job keep the build going.
To cold to work on my trailer now without a garage. So I will follow yours.
Mark

 

[skersfan]

You guys working on new trailers is making me jealous, I may just start on an new one this coming week. Trailer looks good Mike!!!!!

 

[Pikeman]

Where in teh world dod you get that Basket and them lights from? I like the tow rig..

Thank You. The tow rig is also a work in progress although have been wheeling/ driving it as is for a while now. The basket is from Outdoor Logic. It was originally made for a Jeep Cherokee but I adapted it to fit on my 4Runner. Jimmy the owner of Outdoor Logic just made same basket for his F350 crew cab to haul gear to KOH. The lights are Vision X 4510(spot beam) and 4512(Euro beam) halogen hybrid lights that are HID ready. I have the spot beams in the middle and the Eurobeams on the outside.

sorry it took a while to reply but was out working pit crew with the guys from Outdoor Logic supporting Car 100(The Italian Team) for KOH. They race started with 140 of which only 49 finished, car 100 finished 37th.

 

[tbone1004]

ok so I'm confused. Why change the tongue on the trailer in the first place? It's not like the stock one isn't strong enough.
I understand it's hinged, but if you shear the bolts that hold it in I would be impressed.
I don't get swapping the pintle hook out either, but you can swap to a 2 inch receiver fairly easy on the existing tongue.
Just trying to understand the why. I haven't had an issue with my pintle, and aside from really slow hard angle turns sounding absolutely horrendous, it's really not that noticeable.