PLB (Personal locating beacon)

[DaveInDenver]

@moabian - do you have personal experience responding to all 3 major types (SPOT, InReach, PLB)? If so can you give some feedback to reliability and preference? I know you've said you like the 2-way but assuming someone does stick with a 1-way device (e.g. Spot gen 1/2/3 or PLB) is there any real world advantage to the higher power of a PLB? IOW, have you ever heard of a case where a Spot SOS activation wasn't heard?

 

[GB_Willys_2014]

I witnessed someone, from a different hiking party, issue an SOS from SPOT 1 Gen some years back in a remote section of the Grand Canyon after dark.

A woman hiker had fallen on a steep trail, careened down a very steep dropoff,and was precariously lieing upside down. Luckily her pack was wedged against a rock outcropping, else she would have fallen a sheer 25 feet.

The obvious problem with the SPOT was the lack of a "handshake" response, so the group of us out there, me, my buddy, and the party of the injured hiker, had no way of knowing if the SOS call was actually received.

It turns out that it was received and the injured hiker was extracted, amazingly with minor injures, the next morning.

But it was a LONG sleepless night for all involved.

For hours in the cold and dark, we tried to get to her. We finally came to the conclusion that we would only do more harm to her or ourselves.

We debated long and hard about a midnight hike across 10 hard and difficult miles to the nearest ranger station, and came to the conclusion that this option was also too risky.

We were ready to hit the trail at first light, when we finally heard the helicopter. A SAR team out of Flagstaff worked for 3 hours setting up rigging to rappel down to her for the helicopter extraction.

***

The above convinced me to buy a PLB device with 2 way communication capabilities.

 

[crazysccrmd]

I did not want or recommend the text versions. I like a brick that does not need to be charged or batteries replaced for 6 years. I do not want the complication of a monthly or annual bill that could cut service if not paid.
I like the one time $208 purchase that I won't worry about for 6 years. I do have to fill out the free registration online but it's free. In 6 years if paid annually the Delorm is $1185 plus tax for the unit and service. I'm not saying the text is not nice or that you personally do not want it but I do like the stupid simple brick that will bring the Calvery to me now or in 6 years with nothing else to ever think about.
With that said I know the adventure bike riders or those going remotely for days in the mountains find the text mandatory due to the risk and family concerns. Is that worth the extra 1000 bucks and complication? I just want to know if I blow my knee or fall and bust a hip when I step off the trail to take a crap that somebody can find me. The gadget part of the texting models....I know this is a gadget site and it's cool. Just remember there is a very cheap, reliable, stupid simple and easy to carry $208 model that will save your ******** with the pull of one lever. McMurdo fast find 220. Is it frustrating that it does nothing else but weigh down my pack? Yep. At least the fancy models do somthing else and if for that reason alone it gets you to carry one then get it. It really does free your mind when you have to make a decision to travel into the places that otherwise would seem dangerously remote.

I very much like having the two way text capability. It turns things like a snapped ATV throttle cable 50 miles into the backcountry from a potential emergency to a manageable situation. I’m able to text people exactly what I need and where I am and have help on the way within a reasonable time. With just a PLB or a one way SOS device that means a two day or longer hike to get back to the truck. It works to let my wife know where I’m stopping to set camp for the night, that I’ll be out a few days longer than planned or similar peace of mind type events. It is a small added expense each month but it’s nothing more expensive than buying two six packs of decent beer.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The above convinced me to buy a PLB device with 2 way communication capabilities.

I'm starting to think the other way, going to a PLB. There's 74 transponders spread across LEO, MEO (these are piggybacked on GPS/Galileo/GLONASS satellites) and GEO. It's a very robust system as you might expect. The LEOSARs birds don't even need a GPS fix, they locate you by Doppler shift on your signal. They take longer (about an hour) to find your location but they still work even if GPS reception is weak.

While Globalstar and Iridium have lots of satellites (24 Globalstar and 72 Iridium) they aren't looking specifically for SOS. They treat your SOS as a high priority text message with a GPS location in it. It's good but I'm starting to convince myself not to trust them. I have had nothing but good luck with my SPOT, though, getting check-ins and tracking beacons.

I dunno. The cost difference @Stumpalump mentions is true. I got a good deal on my renewal for SPOT Gen 3 ($50 for a year) but that was only because I'd dropped them and they made the offer for me to come back. Normal price is $150 + $200/year. So a $250 PLB over 5 years is still $250 while the SPOT will have been $1,150.

 

[Stumpalump]

I think they all have two way communication to let you know the signal was recieved. On the cheap McMurdo fast find like I bought it flashes twice a second when you activate it then it slows to once per second once it connects. After the signal is recieved with location data and the emergency is logged you get a long flash followed by two short ones. They claim it takes 50 seconds. That would be awful if you did not know but the PlB's do let you know so you don't worry. You still need to leave it on because it also transmits a radio distress signal on a different frequency. You can also hit the test button once activated to turn on an SOS strobe light.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Only the Galileo MEOSAR transponders have return link service, e.g. support the satellite acknowledgement back to your PLB. But even if you don't get this the system is still working.

 

[Stumpalump]

The other thing a cheap PLB does that the others don't is that it sends the signal to the Federal goverment and they don't play. The Feds dispatch the call and the local responders must reply and are also required to follow up. The others rely on an operator that basically calls 911 in the area of the distress. The 911 operator determines who to call. That can be an issue if the wrong 911 dispatcher is called or they know nothing about the forest you are in adding additional time. They may call a sheriff who eventually determines you are out of his area. He calls the next town who looks for you when they can. With the Feds making the request they jump a little faster and are required by law to answer to the Feds. The Feds don't screew up and the responders get their act together priority one on a call from them. Now is this a problem? It has been for the Spot but I think they got their act together and do a better job today by hounding local rescue. I still can't text for a clutch cable but if I'm busted up I'll have the best satellite system contacting the US Goverment who will be 100% on my case until resolution besides just a 911 call. Just another piece of mind if SHTF that the highest level of the Calvary with all their redundant systems are on it.

 

[Stumpalump]

Only the Galileo MEOSAR transponders have return link service, e.g. support the satellite acknowledgement back to your PLB. But even if you don't get this the system is still working.

So what you are saying is that I may get a return confirmation or may not depending on the sat that takes my call?
If I don't get it then I'm probably still OK?

 

[Hillbilly Heaven]

I look at it this way. That monthly fee is an insurance premium against a possible $50,000 plus for a useless helicopter dispatch. Also while that helicopter is dispatched to you that is one less real life threatening incident it can respond to. So while he is headed to you someone else is in real need. I am not so tight with my money that I endanger someone else.

 

[vintageracer]

It's safe to say we all can agree that having some type of locating device with 1 way communication or 2 way communication is better than having nothing at all when on the trail!

 

[DaveInDenver]

So what you are saying is that I may get a return confirmation or may not depending on the sat that takes my call?
If I don't get it then I'm probably still OK?

Yes, that's basically it. You may be located by any of the satellites but only the Galileo transponders have the ability to transmit a message back to a capable PLB.

Last I heard Galileo wasn't supposed to be used within the U.S. due to some sort of bureaucratic SNAFU with the FCC, so I don't know if that impacts SARSAT. I'm not 100% sure the whole Galileo constellation is operational for MEOSAR just yet in 2018, either.

That's why I mention not to worry about or trust any acknowledgement. That's a new feature but the operation and success don't rely on 2-way in any way.

 

[moabian]

I like the one time $208 purchase that I won't worry about for 6 years. I do have to fill out the free registration online but it's free. In 6 years if paid annually the Delorm is $1185 plus tax for the unit and service.

Your reasons for preferring a PLB are absolutely valid. PLBs are also much more powerful (5W vs ~.5W) than the SPOT/inReach devices, though that seems to make little, if any, difference with today's technology. Yes, the subscription devices are more expensive. I keep my Garmin Explorer+ activated year-round at about $25/month for the upgraded plan I chose. But you can also choose to only activate it for a month at a time. In my case, I use it as one might use a sat phone, but it is much faster and more convenient. Cell phones and radios (without a relay) are useless in much of the canyon country surrounding Moab. And the Explorer+ can also act as a simple GPS with on-screen maps. In addition to using the devices for communication, we have used them to track resources in the field.

Let's face it, far too many people who are in the backcountry are simply not prepared to be there and have differing definitions of "emergency". Moab has oversold itself as the adventure capitol of the universe. Albeit late, they are now thankfully starting to stress preparedness. As many do, I look back fondly on the days before cell phones or GPS. The ancient lack of communication and electronic navigation forced people to be prepared and smart in the backcountry...or pay a steep price. Today, many simply should not go out alone...thus the mantra (which is a sad commentary on today's "adventurists") that you should NEVER Jeep alone. But that's a whole other thread topic.

And another perhaps useless aside: cell phones have started to alter "Lost Person Behavior." When planning a pre-cell era search, lost person behavior studies dictated that people generally moved downhill. Now, we are finding that many subjects move uphill. Why? Because that is where they think they will find a cell signal.

There is now an unprecedented number of emergency signalling devices available with all kinds of bells and whistles. There are quite a few PLBs on the market. ACR makes some that are highly regarded. The stats reveal that the majority of people are choosing satellite messaging devices rather than PLBs...perhaps because of marketing. As always, added features come at a cost. As you stated in your first post, it is wise to carry an emergency signalling device of some type in case you encounter a crappy fan.

 

[moabian]

@moabian - do you have personal experience responding to all 3 major types (SPOT, InReach, PLB)? If so can you give some feedback to reliability and preference? I know you've said you like the 2-way but assuming someone does stick with a 1-way device (e.g. Spot gen 1/2/3 or PLB) is there any real world advantage to the higher power of a PLB? IOW, have you ever heard of a case where a Spot SOS activation wasn't heard?

I prefer not to recommend devices since I happen to be involved with a government entity. PLBs, SPOT and inReach devices all work. More $$ usually equals more features. There are tons of reviews out there on the various devices. What I can say is that with my Garmin inReach device, messages have been sent and replies received almost instantaneously. The longest it has taken from message sent to reply received has been 5 minutes. Most of the time, it is a matter of seconds. In my experience with a rescue group that responds to more than 100 calls per year, I have seen absolutely no evidence that NOAA/AFRCC is any more reliable or accurate than GEOS IERCC.

While some have mentioned advantages of satellite triangulation (Doppler shift method), that is extremely slow and inaccurate. With the 406MHz signal, it may only be accurate to within a 28 square-mile area. I don't know if there are any portable, ground-based devices that would allow us to search for that signal. The 121.5MHz homing signal, which is no longer monitored by the government, is accurate to within about 450 square miles. We do have a device that allows us to drive/walk/fly and home in on that signal, though it only has a range of about 8 miles. When the government was still monitoring the 121.5MHz signal, we would often get wildly varying updated locations, sometimes 50 miles apart....which is why I said that, if you choose to go with a PLB, be certain it also has GPS capabilities.

 

[moabian]

They may call a sheriff who eventually determines you are out of his area. He calls the next town who looks for you when they can. With the Feds making the request they jump a little faster...

Simply not true. Calls from the AFRCC are not treated any differently or with more urgency than calls from the IERCC. And the AFRCC is no less apt to call the wrong agency. If that does happen, the correct agency is notified within minutes...if not seconds. While you have presented some great info in this thread, your entire post containing the above quote is full of misinformation. If someone told you that you would get a faster or better cavalry with a PLB, they lied.

 

[Stumpalump]

Simply not true. Calls from the AFRCC are not treated any differently or with more urgency than calls from the IERCC. And the AFRCC is no less apt to call the wrong agency. If that does happen, the correct agency is notified within minutes...if not seconds. While you have presented some great info in this thread, your entire post containing the above quote is full of misinformation. If someone told you that you would get a faster or better cavalry with a PLB, they lied.

I'm glad they have it sorted out. Most of my research was done when I bought my old mcmurdo 8 years ago. Spot operators dropped the ball back then because all they did was call 911 for you. 911 was dealing with a 3rd party with very limited info. The PLB signal goes to Cape Canaveral or Huston then the military gets involved. I'll still only recommend a PLB. No cords, batteries, chargers, software updates or service bills for 6 years. It's like a pack knife. I throw it in my bag, check it once a year and always know it will be ready to go. Too many folks claim to own a Spot and its in a draw at home with dead batteries and no service contract. I also have enough gadgets and electronics in my life. A dumb indestructible brick PLB is perfect for me. Lol. My flashlights, GPS always seem to have corroded or dead batteries in the heat and humidity. I don't ever deal with any issue with the PLB except having my pack with me. One less piece of gear to fiddle with. Is the hassle and cost of the others that text worth it? At least good choices for both are available. The best would probably be to also add a sat phone on long or dangerouse adventures. You can rent one by the week.