Plywood camper fabrication questions (thinking of idaSho)

ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
Good! :)

:unsure: ... I'm pretty sure that you are comfortable with using adhesives rather than mechanical fasteners now that you are thinking about using structural foam. ... :cool:

I plan to, as a few other folks in this thread have suggested, use adhesives AND mechanical fasteners.

I don't doubt the strength of the adhesives, but screws and/or brad nails will help provide for a nice tight seal while the adhesive set up, and extra strength after that.
 

rruff

Explorer
That being said, I don't think that you need to make your frame from strips of plywood. I know that you were concerned about frame strength, and I mentioned the layered plywood frame as a way that you could increase frame strength.

Can you describe exactly what you are talking about?

I think simple is definitely a virtue. Easy to make... strong enough, light enough, insulated. The little details are the things that will bite you...

On that note, it's hard to beat a simply shaped box built with panels made using structural foam core and commercial FG skins. Use only adhesive to join it together and attach and mount things. Reinforce edges and corners with aluminum angle or... pultruded FG angle. I've never seen anyone use FG angle for this, but it seems like a no brainer. For this sort of design you just need to make sure your bonds are good.
 

1000arms

Well-known member
I plan to, as a few other folks in this thread have suggested, use adhesives AND mechanical fasteners.

I don't doubt the strength of the adhesives, but screws and/or brad nails will help provide for a nice tight seal while the adhesive set up, and extra strength after that.
If I remember correctly, you were pretty hesitant to rely on adhesives as much as your are willing to do so now. If you look at some of my responses to your earlier questions, I was suggesting what you are now talking about doing. :)
 

1000arms

Well-known member
... I think simple is definitely a virtue. Easy to make... strong enough, light enough, insulated. ...
I agree. ... I'll try to describe the overlapping plywood strip frame in another post, but please keep in mind that I mentioned it to give ReluctantTraveler another way to make a stronger frame if he thought he needed it, and to help him continue to wrap his mind around effectively using adhesives.
 
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1000arms

Well-known member
Can you describe exactly what you are talking about? ...
Some years back I was considering how to build a frame so that 2" rigid board XPS would neatly fit between frame skins allowing for some adhesive. Although I could have ripped lumber, I realized that I could also slice 3/4" (nominal) sheets of plywood in to 2" strips, and that 3 of those strips, glued flat together, would work quite nicely. (Although if 3/4" (nominal) plywood gets much thinner, that won't work anymore. :( )

Although my design was for flat floor, roof, and walls (except for an angled wind-deflector at the front of the cab-over), curved structures could be made with thinner plywood strips glued together, as I suspect you are well aware. :)

Please keep in mind that I will describe building a box to help facilitate readers understanding of the framework and overlapping plywood, rather than for exact directions to build a camper. :)

For simplicity, let us consider a box with outside dimensions of 8' long, 4' wide, and 4' high. Skin thickness will affect plywood strip lengths if one wants to maintain the outside dimensions, so let us consider skins of 0" thickness.

For the 8' x 4' floor, start with (2) 8' strips placed 3'8" apart. Place (7) 3'8" strips between them. (2) at each end (forming a rectangle), (1) in the very middle, and (2) strips spaced between the middle strip and outer strips (on each side of the middle strip).

Glue (and clamp however one likes) (7) 4' strips across the 8' strips and the 3'8" strips.

Glue (12) (cut to length) strips between the gaps on each 8' length (6 strips per side).

Glue (2) 8' strips to the floor frame (1 on each side).

Glue (7) 3'8" strips to finish the "joists" of the floor "ladder" frame.

Skin both sides of the floor remembering to include the foam.

Build the long wall frames, keeping in mind that the long wall frame only needs to be 3'8" high (because the floor plus roof and 0" skins will make up the rest of the 4' height).

Build the short walls frames, keeping in mind that short wall frame only needs to be 3'8" high (because the floor plus roof and 0" skins will make up the rest of the 4' height), and the short wall frame only needs to be 3'8" wide (because the long walls and 0" skins will make up the rest of the 4').

Skin the inside of the wall long frames and the inside of the short wall frames (only the insides).

Glue the long wall frames to the floor skin.

Glue the short wall frames to the floor skin and to the long wall frame (interior) skins.

Make a roof by duplicating the floor.

Glue the roof to the top of the long wall frames and short wall frames.

Foam and skin (the outsides) of the long wall frames and short wall frames. Make sure that the outside wall skins overlap on the roof frame and on the floor frame.

......................................................

For additional strength (and work :) ), use scarf joints instead of butt joints.

For extra additional strength (and work :) ), cut some of the 8' "strips" with "nubs" for 2 (of the 3) layers of each 8' frame length. Cut them with 3" nubs and also with 6" nubs. Doing so offsets the joints. so that 2 butt joints (or scarf joints) aren't overlapping.

Yes, cutting "strips with nubs" from plywood would require additional work and material, but hey, aren't all camper frames designed to work as roll-cages? :unsure: ... :cool:

....................................................
Skins have thickness in real life. Remember to include them while designing a box (camper).

To help with shedding water, I suggest designing the box (camper) so that the top roof skins overhangs the underneath outside wall skins. I also suggest designing the outside wall skins so that they hang down to the bottom of the bottom floor skin.
 
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ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
To help with shedding water, I suggest designing the box (camper) so that the top roof skins overhangs the underneath outside wall skins. I also suggest designing the outside wall skins so that they hang down to the bottom of the bottom floor skin.

This has very much been on my mind. Walls "underneath" the ceiling. Floor "inside" the walls.

The way as water rolls down, it's less likely to find an opening and penetrate the body of the camper.
 

rruff

Explorer
I mean... Unless you're molding a single piece of composite, the walls, ceiling and floor will have seams, right? You have holes for windows and doors?

Nope, no seams on mine. The edges are wet laid FG that continues the skins. There are gaskets at windows and doors of course.

I guess on the typical composite panels they cut the openings last, but closed cell foam and FG are the only things that will get wet if there is a leak. The edges are a robust structural connection and no way that will leak unless you really screw up.

Since you are building a boxy rig anyway, I think it would be smart to make some samples of just PVC foam and FG skins glued together, and think about it. Everything glued in... with no fasteners... edges, partitions, storage, etc. It's the simplest, easiest, cheapest, and best(?) way to build something like this, which is why all the overland camper manufacturers do it this way.
 

jwiereng

Active member
It's the simplest, easiest, cheapest, and best(?) way to build something like this, which is why all the overland camper manufacturers do it this way.

Lots of people use the overland descriptive when promoting their campers. I would not say all are using this method of construction.
 

rruff

Explorer
You are right, it isn't all. I was thinking of custom campers. Molded FG+foam is found on some like Earthroamer, Earthcrusier, Nimbl. Aluminum frames like 4WC and Tiger... though I think the fact these designs are a few decades old is a factor.
 

ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
I'm 99% sure I'll be going with a "frame and then install the foam core + panels" approach over a "build the panels and glue them together" approach, simply because the former allows for a lot more "iterate as you build."

I'm now wondering what y'all recommend for framing lumber?

The plywood will be marine-grade. I want to use 2x4's in the corners, overlapped so that I have a bit of wood to nail the interior ply panels to in the corners.

I know I should avoid Home Depot/Lowes, since even their "good" stuff is wildly warped. Any recommendations?

The place I was going to buy my plywood from, Boulter Plywood, also sells marine lumber. Worth going through one vendor for everything?

Also, what species of wood?
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
For a variety of reasons, I used 1x2 VG Fir for the bulk of my build.

Easy to source, incredibly strong for its weight, and more rot resistant than the only other VG I considered, Hemlock.
Most building supply places stock VG Fir, but for a large project like this you will likely need to special order some.

I special ordered mine, and specified longest lengths the supplier had at the time.

Best I can recall, I think I wound up with mostly 18' lengths, and a handful of 12' lengths.
Nice stuff.

44094679982_36c60fcb9a_c.jpg


44142985021_0c31ef0264_o.jpg
 

ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
For a variety of reasons, I used 1x2 VG Fir for the bulk of my build.

Easy to source, incredibly strong for its weight, and more rot resistant than the only other VG I considered, Hemlock.
Most building supply places stock VG Fir, but for a large project like this you will likely need to special order some.

I special ordered mine, and specified longest lengths the supplier had at the time.

Best I can recall, I think I wound up with mostly 18' lengths, and a handful of 12' lengths.
Nice stuff.

44094679982_36c60fcb9a_c.jpg


44142985021_0c31ef0264_o.jpg

awesome thanks! The supplier I’d be getting my ply from has those.
 

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