POD: Custom camper - design stage

[pods8]

Your door looks to be too far back, the axle would be right about where the door frame is which would make the wheel opening halfway in the door.

Why the side door rather than rear door if I might ask?

How would that be an issue? The flatbed (and thus the doorway) is above the tire and protrudes farther than the tire will from the vehicle center line.

Being up on a flatbed I could put the door anywhere. With the side door layout I drew up it allows people to enter and peel off to the left (dinette/lower bed) or right (upper bed) hopefully without disrupting anyone at the sink/stove. That all seemed like a good plan for the multi-person oriented build I'm up to.

I couldn't see how to do a rear door without having one long galley way and splitting the dinette to either side or putting it up front which wouldn't be ideal in terms of weight distribution and having separate areas for the people so they don't have to step over each other.

Also the side door would allow a hitch bike rack carrier to remain undisturbed.

You have a thought I might be over looking?

 

[boblynch]

We really like our side door and flatbed setup. It doesn't get nearly as dusty as a rear door and also frees up the rear bumper area for storage. One thing to consider is the location of the exhaust relative to the door. The tail pipe gets very hot. We had relocate our exhaust or it would have been directly under the door. Good luck with the build.

 

[pods8]

We really like our side door and flatbed setup. It doesn't get nearly as dusty as a rear door and also frees up the rear bumper area for storage. One thing to consider is the location of the exhaust relative to the door. The tail pipe gets very hot. We had relocate our exhaust or it would have been directly under the door. Good luck with the build.

I think it'll at least be 1' to the left of the door off the top of my head but I'll definitely double check.

 

[Marc1]

(This thread will be going parallel path on WTW so for anyone that cruises both you'll see it duplicated.) I've been throwing together thoughts on doing a custom camper as well and have been studying up on the construction method I've been thinking about for a couple months. I've got a fairly good feeling on the concept there and the next step is to get some supplies in and make up some sample pieces.

Parallel path to that I need to get the actual camper designed. Pretty much will need to know about all major attachment points before construction begins. This will also be going on a flatbed. Current thought is for a 7.5' long, 83" wide camper on a short box truck (should only be ~6-7" longer than my hawk as I'll be able to get it closer to the truck cab without a front rack on the flatbed). The profile height will be driven by the final decisions on the cab over, I can make a nice thin over cab profile like FWC/ATC or I can add in a few inches to it to get a 3" storage compartment under the cab over mattress. Trade off of storage verse a sleeker profile.

But I'm getting ahead of myself, the first step here is figuring out a good floor plan. Goal is to accommodate 2 adults, 2 kids. Ideally have room for 2 people to be moving around at a time and seating for the others during that time. The pictures below is what I've thrown together so far:

Stats:
*40" wide dinette (78" long in bed mode)
*the counter top is around 3' long right now (little less than desired but might consider cutting board style pullouts on the dinette side and under the sink for extra space.
*The red block would be a 12V compressor freezer/fridge which would provide extra counter space when closed
*The gray block along the front of the camper taking foot room away from the counter area may go away, its a place holder depending on water tank selection.
*Dinette is setup in two parts so it can form a single bed/couch and half size table as well.

So those are my initial thoughts, hit me with any feedback or suggestions for consideration at this point. Its good to get outside opinions.

Nice job of copying the XPCamper lay out.

marc

 

[pods8]

Nice job of copying the XPCamper lay out.

marc

Is this Marc of XP? If so I'm sorry if you feel I'm ripping you off.

There are going to be some definite similarities at first glance on the surface but some big differences to, which are important to me. Additionally since this is a home build even if I copied it exactly what would it matter, are we not allowed to self manufacture these days? Creative spirits often reproduce many commercial products. That said I feel I'm producing something unique for myself (if I choose to build it).

Alike:
*Passenger side door
*Rear dinette (but XP is smaller)
*Kitchen on driver side front
*Potentially storage under the bed (just like other manufacturers do, not unique to XP).

None of the above is specifically unique to XP, however its not a bad layout either. When dealing with a certain sized box there are only so many ways to lay it out and there will be some overlapping designs.

That said here's some solid differences:
*I only want 7'-6" length
*I want a twin sized bed dinette
*I don't want a shower/bathroom enclosure to the side of the door
*I don't want a basement under the camper
*My outside access will be completely different
*I'll be using propane appliances, not diesel
*I'd be using a cooler style fridge off to the side of the door, not a build in one in the galley
*I want an opening window into the truck cab, XP appeals to have build in storage all across the front.
ETC.

I'm under the impression the XP is of mold construction, if that is the case it wouldn't seemingly be feasible to produce what I want very easily. Additionally you're producing a very high end product that just isn't in my realm. You've got very high end appliance, core material, etc.

If I build this I'm planning to do a basic polystyrene foam board core with some wood, hand wrapped in epoxy and fiberglass. Much more of a budget minded BOM and I think I can produce what I want out of a camper, fully outfitted for maybe 1/4 to 1/3 the price of your shell (all my labor though).

Again I'm sorry if you feel ripped off or threatened but you should really feel good about the partial inspiration. If I really was trying to rip you off, I'd have already tried contacting you to figure out a few little design details that I'm still working through. I can tell you've never lost a client in me because your product was always far to high end for my budget/desires.

 

[Marc1]

Is this Marc of XP? If so I'm sorry if you feel I'm ripping you off.

There are going to be some definite similarities at first glance on the surface but some big differences to, which are important to me. Additionally since this is a home build even if I copied it exactly what would it matter, are we not allowed to self manufacture these days? Creative spirits often reproduce many commercial products. That said I feel I'm producing something unique for myself (if I choose to build it).

Alike:
*Passenger side door
*Rear dinette (but XP is smaller)
*Kitchen on driver side front
*Potentially storage under the bed (just like other manufacturers do, not unique to XP).

None of the above is specifically unique to XP, however its not a bad layout either. When dealing with a certain sized box there are only so many ways to lay it out and there will be some overlapping designs.

That said here's some solid differences:
*I only want 7'-6" length
*I want a twin sized bed dinette
*I don't want a shower/bathroom enclosure to the side of the door
*I don't want a basement under the camper
*My outside access will be completely different
*I'll be using propane appliances, not diesel
*I'd be using a cooler style fridge off to the side of the door, not a build in one in the galley
*I want an opening window into the truck cab, XP appeals to have build in storage all across the front.
ETC.

I'm under the impression the XP is of mold construction, if that is the case it wouldn't seemingly be feasible to produce what I want very easily. Additionally you're producing a very high end product that just isn't in my realm. You've got very high end appliance, core material, etc.

If I build this I'm planning to do a basic polystyrene foam board core with some wood, hand wrapped in epoxy and fiberglass. Much more of a budget minded BOM and I think I can produce what I want out of a camper, fully outfitted for maybe 1/4 to 1/3 the price of your shell (all my labor though).

Again I'm sorry if you feel ripped off or threatened but you should really feel good about the partial inspiration. If I really was trying to rip you off, I'd have already tried contacting you to figure out a few little design details that I'm still working through. I can tell you've never lost a client in me because your product was always far to high end for my budget/desires.

Am not XP Marc. Nice rant though

 

[18seeds]

Nice job of copying the XPCamper lay out.

marc

http://www.freedomoffroad.com.au/MC750HSD.php

I guess the XP isn't a copy because the door is on the driver side

 

[pods8]

Am not XP Marc. Nice rant though

No need to be snippy (if you are, hard to tell tone). I wasn't trying to rant, just lay out my view of it based on the fact I thought you might have been XP Marc and having negative feelings about this.

Did you have anything constructive to add to the discussion?

 

[cwsqbm]

Nice job of copying the XPCamper lay out.

marc

That's being unfair, and uncalled for, but looking at your previous posts hyping the XPCamper and attacking others, not unexpected. I wouldn't call it a copy of the XP camper. It has similarities, but then again it does to the layout used in many Unicat - bed one end, dinette other and cooking in the middle (and a lot like the TC51). I like the XPCamper too, although I think this layout (with a bigger rear dinette, and no bathroom) would suit a family better.

Study the entire RV industry - there's only so many ways to fit stuff in a small space.

 

[Northern Explorer]

There are many side entry campers that share this or a very similar layout. From a design perspective it just makes the most sence.

 

[Marc1]

No need to be snippy (if you are, hard to tell tone). I wasn't trying to rant, just lay out my view of it based on the fact I thought you might have been XP Marc and having negative feelings about this.

Did you have anything constructive to add to the discussion?

Geeeeez ... everyone is so sensative, I was just making a comment.

 

[pods8]

Geeeeez ... everyone is so sensative, I was just making a comment.

So be it man, it came off like I offended you so I was trying to clear the air (thinking you were the other marc). If you are who I now think you are you've seemed leave headed at WTW, we disagreed semantically about that truck bed issue a couple days ago but damned if I know what else if you are actually annoyed by me or whatever. If not stack up to lack of clarity in conversing over the internet.

Anyways just trying to build something for ME here. I pondered some other layouts but what I've posted up is what I think will serve me, the wife, kid 1 and future kid 2 to hopefully let us wander and enjoy. I've viewed numerous resources and pulling info/ideas I like from everything as well as concocting my own. Back to the show!

 

[Engineer Guy]

Space Is The Place

I like your ideas - the 1/2 Table idea is super - and I'm personally very keen on flexibility/modularity. Some of that perspective comes from going to Asia on Biz and seeing how space is 'reused'. The average Tokyo Apt. is ~20' x 20'. They're called 'Rabbit Hutches' in local slang. The Futon serves as Couch and Bed, and a Table w/built-in Wok or Hot Plate then becomes a cooking service for 4 to sit around on the Floor on Cushions, etc..

After looking at everything under the Sun for my future build, I've mentally bookmarked a few ideas. And, yes, RV space utilization falls into certain use patterns because it has to. Only so much space to play with... Camper Manfs. recycle ideas just as surely as Guitarists recycle licks from predecessors.

1. Skip any Oven, and have a 2 Burner Cooktop with one Burner behind the other. This frees up Counter Space. Have the usual Cutting Board inset flush for the Sink. I may use a 2 Burner Propane Cooktop given us for both inside and outside use. I'm very comfy with quick disconnects and/or my piping skills.

A Physics fellow in Germany I visited had papers all over his Meeting Table by necessity. He grabbed a nice piece of Marine Ply with 4 - 1" Rubber Feet on the corners and - voila - an instant 'new' Tabletop surface on top of all the papers that we could exchange papers on.

2. Little flip up locking surfaces and/or built-in slider surfaces - like built-in Cutting Boards - can provide horizontal surface when you need it, and can disappear when you don't. You can always add these tweaks after the core project is done and it's time to get Camping first.

3. Most Water Pumps will pull a decent head. So, you could have a parallel Tank somewhere ~feet away with quick disconnects if the fittings are low on the Tanks, or if there's a dip tube. Water capacity could 'come and go' as Tanks are added or removed. A Grey Water Tank could also come and go vs. a 'straight' out drain... Your Propane Tank flexibility idea is super!

4. My Shower idea is to use a recycled Shower Pan, inset or not. I'll hang the Shower Curtain on 3 sides, as they do around Tubs in the U.K. The bent Tubing will friction/quick disconnect mount, or hinge down, to the Wall, with a supporting hook or two off the Ceiling. Demount the Tubing and the [opaque], bottom-weighted Curtain and you've got free and clear space back. An inset piece of Ply set just inside could cover the Shower Pan to make it Floor space again. My Plumbing will DEFINITELY gravity drain for freeze-proofing.

5. Around a Relative's Hong Kong Luxury Apt., it's standard procedure for all Kitchen and Bath Cabs AND Toilets to change out with the new Owner. Everything mounts securely/invisibly on standardized rails on [Metric] Studs. You can also see some of this modular thinking in IKEA designs. I'm thinking also of using some slick 1/4 turn Mounting Hardware a pal showed me to mount Cabs to Studs, and to make my wiring safely modular, too. A Twist Lok or three would do it. This is done with Trade Show Exhibits all the time. It means you could change the internal config. with Field Camping experience, or as preferences change. If it suits you, you could use prefab Cabs or components. Why build 'knee jerk', fixed configs like Home Kitchens? Rethink the 'assumptions'. I plan to hit our Recycling Center/Habitat For Humanity for many of the basic components, purchased on the very cheap... Besides looking very retro cool, some older Cabs are REALLY built; no OSB malarky to vibrate apart...

I hope to do Plumbing and Wiring in a very few 'Baseboard' chases so that I can get in and change/upgrade Supply Utilities. It's tough to think of everything up front, so why bury everything in Walls? I deployed some of these ideas in our House I'm just finishing. Smaller Camper spaces are 'easier' to work with.

A nice start you've got there...

 

[eugene]

I was thinking frame mounted instead of flatbed, like
http://www.allpar.com/photos/campers/1969/chassis-cab.jpg
(first pic I found of one)
If you lower the box some and make fender openings and move the door forward you could lower the whole CG unless you had planned on putting something between the frame and floor, there is a good bit of space between the top of the frame and the top of the tires and some more for flex you'll have a foot or so space. If you try to put things like water tanks that big you'll be heavy pretty quick. So I'd lower the whole thing some, make wheel openings below the kitchen and bed then the door opening could even drop down lower to make entry easier.
I'd try to not have so many tables that fold and swivel and move, it sounds good in theory but after a while you get tired of having to move everything off of one to fold it up to get to something else.

 

[pods8]

This won't be a 100% dedicated camper rig, maintain the function of a truck is a requirement.

If I was going to frame mount it I'd be cutting into the cab for a pass through that is for sure.