Possible inexpensive winch line extension

M

mrchips

Adventurer
No, I would not use it as a substitute.
A good winch line extension is under $100. and if needed in an emergency situation, you have peace of mind knowing that it can withstand the stress that you will put on it, as a life could hang in the balance.
 
Y

yyc_ranger_4x4

New member
Nothing comes up...but I would not use any type of security cable for a winch line extension. They're not swaged the same way that a proper cable should be, and usually not even the same cable. If you're looking for an anchor strap, go get some good tree saver straps, they're not that expensive. Be sure that you're using good quality connecting hardware too. I recommend nothing less than 3/4" screw pin shackles, preferably a US forged steel unit like one from Crosby.

DON'T CHEAP OUT!! Get something from a winching related website, or go over to a local rigging supply store, tell them what you want and what you're going to use it for, and follow their recommendations (Home Depot, or other store like that does not count). Hell....hit up a local offroad shop! <--Not trying to be rude

If you use something like what you have been asking about, it may hold for a few hundred lbs or so, but when it breaks....it's going to allow the entire length of winch line to come back very quickly. Even the shackle is going to fly. My bet is someone may even get hurt.
 
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alexrex20

alexrex20

Explorer
another option is to use marine rigging rope. i have some rope that's rated to 23klb WLL and is only 5/8in diameter - about the equivalent of steel cable! it's actually more expensive than steel cable, so it would only be cost-efficient if you already have lengths of rope for your boat, but in a pinch it would work. it's also more flexible than steel and you can tie it in removable knots that are still strong enough to support the entire load rating of any given section of rope.

or you can just do it right and buy synthetic winchline extension.
 
O

off-roader

Expedition Leader
njsjeep said:
At a Big Lots for $6.00 I saw these:

http://www.theclub.com/default.aspx...e//MenuGroup/Home/desc/20-Foot+Security+Cable

Do you think it would be safe to use as a 20' winch line extension or anchor point connection strap?
Click to expand...

Look at it this way...
Do you think someone can make something that's normally $100 for only $6? If they could and your life or vehicle depended on it, would you buy the $6 version or the $100 version? I guess the question is how much do you value your vehicle and possibly your life and others.

Dont mean to be harsh here but that's really the decision for this one as I see it. ;)
 
O

opie

Explorer
alexrex20 said:
another option is to use marine rigging rope. i have some rope that's rated to 23klb WLL and is only 5/8in diameter - about the equivalent of steel cable! it's actually more expensive than steel cable, so it would only be cost-efficient if you already have lengths of rope for your boat, but in a pinch it would work. it's also more flexible than steel and you can tie it in removable knots that are still strong enough to support the entire load rating of any given section of rope.

or you can just do it right and buy synthetic winchline extension.
Click to expand...

Tying a knot in any line can derate the average rating of the line anywhere from 40-80%.

The best way to make use of line is to braid or splice it. Deratings then are limited usually to 20% or less. Some even down to 5%.

And Amsteel Blue is a common replacement for wire rope. Easily spliced and strength to weight is outstanding.
 
N

njsjeep

Observer
I use 5/16th inch Amsteel blue synthetic line on my winch and USA made Load rated shackles and overhead load rated slings for tree savers etc. The original line on my Warn winch was 5/16th wire rope with a swaged end for the hook or a shackle. Since the security cable is 3/8th inch steel with swaged loops I thought it could be useful.

I contacted the company that makes them, Winner International, to find out what type of cable is used. The customer service rep was very helpful but had to pass on my inquiry to the production manager so I'm waiting to hear back. I'm tempted to get one and take it to the engineering department and have them destroy it for me to get an idea if it is any good.

I've been climbing for over 30 years so I understand using good components in any system where safety is an issue but I'm also cheap and like bright colored recovery/safety gear. Thanks for all the feedback.
 

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Y

yyc_ranger_4x4

New member
The security cables are not swaged the same way that an winch line would be. You require a flemish eye splice with a swaged end for proper loading. I can see in that picture that they're probably using an aluminum swaged end. Also, you're going to want a thimble in the end to keep the cable from being bent below it's safe minimum bend radius for loading.

Flemish Eye Splice:
flem_eye_1_1a.gif


Standard swaged cable:
270_nicro_sleeve.jpg


The main difference is that the flemish eye splice is distributes the load back into the body of the cable evenly. In theory it retains almost all the strength of the cable because of the way it inter-twines back into itself. This load capability is decreased dure to the the little bit of pressure that the cable is subjected to from the swage sleeve that is crimped onto the cable. A standard nico sleeve actually presses the cable against the "dead end" that is just doubled back and squeezed together. This can decrease the effective strength down to about 60-70% of the cable.

Also be advised that the style and material of the cable will also be a big part of the breaking strength of the cable. 6x7, 7x19, IPS, or EIPS, etc.

Now with all the decreases in strength from the crimping/swaging process, you add a SWL (safe working load) factor to the equipment. This is usually 5:1. That means that if the total strength after swaging is 5000lbs, then you have a SWL of 1000lbs. This is taken into account for the aging of the gear, wear and tear, any damage it may have, etc.

If the company is willing to give you a written on paper, a safe working load that includes it's swl design factor, then (and only then) would I use it....if it is actually strong enough. Just remember, if it fails...it may not just be you on the receiving end of a flying piece of steel cable or shackle.

If you want some really good reading regarding wire rope and it's construction, here's a webpage for you:
http://www.inventionfactory.com/history/RHAwire/introwr/introwre.html
 
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Master-Pull

Master-Pull

Supporting Sponsor
njsjeep said:
I'm tempted to get one and take it to the engineering department and have them destroy it for me to get an idea if it is any good.
Click to expand...
If you want, you can send it to us and we will disect it and let you know what the guts are. We deal with every kind of rope and cable you can imagine, from stuff with 1000 pound breaking strengths to 2,000,000 pounds. Obviously, we'd go into detail with pictures and explanations regarding our findings as opposed to just saying "it'll never work," though I must admit that is my assumption given the information at hand.

-MP
 
N

njsjeep

Observer
Thanks again for all of the feedback. Thats what makes this forum so great there are a lot of very knowledgeable folks here willing to share information. I am learning a lot.

As far as the security cable goes, I ruled that out for recovery use even if the cable were sufficiently strong the swaged loops are inadequate for the job. As I mentioned before, all of my current recovery gear is WLL rated and even all the slings are over head lift rated.

Getting stuck and needing recovery is all part of the fun of off road play. Having recovery gear fail and injure people or damage rigs isn't fun.

Master-Pull, If I send out the cable for destructive testing do I need to send it to the attention of anyone in particular of just include a copy of this thread?
 
N

njsjeep

Observer
I sent a cable out to Matt at Master Pull this afternoon via parcel post so it should get there in about a week. I'm curious too about how well it will hold up, particularly the swaged end loops. Thanks Matt for testing this for me. I usually like to break stuff myself but don't have any means to do the testing safely.
 
Master-Pull

Master-Pull

Supporting Sponsor
I did indeed receive the $6.00 winch extension in the mail the other day, and true to my offer, I will find out what it's made of and test it to failure. I'll post the results as soon as I have them, along with pictures of the exploded extension. I'm leaving tomorrow for the King of the Hammers race in Johnson Valley, but I'll dive into it when I get back and report our findings.

In the meantime, PLEASE nobody use this with their winch. ;)

-MP
 
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