Possible long travel air bags and managable ride?

[Regcabguy]

Not really, try making some for less.

Also cheaper than ripping a bag in half because your suspension drops out more than the bag will take.

Good point. I remember now when I had Firestones they advised not hanging the axle down for any length of time. They also advised keeping a minimum of 5 psi in them at all times. I've had the Carli's for so long I don't even think about it. I have Carli minipaks but if I had to do it over again I'd just get a custom leafpack from North County Spring. On my 98.5 I had to run 50 psi with the Firestones to level the truck with the wet camper and "stuff" on Mexico trips. It was what riding on bumpstops must feel like.

 

[chet6.7]

I have thought about this, but I have not seen anyone that has it post on the pros and cons.

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[b dkw1]

On my 98.5 I had to run 50 psi with the Firestones to level the truck with the wet camper and "stuff" on Mexico trips. It was what riding on bumpstops must feel like.

LOL, You will appreciate this then. 2000 Baja 1K just south of Visciano. I ripped a bag on the Dodge chase truck I was driving. Spent another week and 1800 miles going down and back. Best and worst trip ever. Fixing that truck is when I started making My own mounts with floating bottoms.

 

[b dkw1]

What are you running or offering as an option to correct the problems noted in your post?

I make My own top mount and would use the Daystar bottoms now. I used to make floating mounts for the bottoms but the Daystars work just as well and are a lot less work.

 

[Nitromethane43]

How well do the daystar cups hold up and do the bags center well?

I was originally going to install the cups but switching out the bags was more economical than the set of cups. I do not plan on using the full travel at the moment, just want to make sure there was room to spare when changing out the springs. Currently the bags are about 5" fully compressed and 14.5" at full extension.

It seems that if space is not a concern one could always run come larger bags to avoid the over stretching problem. The firestones did not tear, but there were multiple occasions whey they seemed stressed beyond their designed use. From the pictures the airlift bag may have more stretch than the Firestone setup.

 

[Nitromethane43]

Here is one side with the mounts modified for the new bag. The location ended up more inboard due to the center air fitting location compared to the offset Firestone bag.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Here is one side with the mounts modified for the new bag. The location ended up more inboard due to the center air fitting location compared to the offset Firestone bag.

View attachment 582172View attachment 582172

What will keep the bag centered on the axle?

 

[Nitromethane43]

The centerline of the bag is about half an inch forward of the axle centerline, you can see the Firestone mounting holes and the new hole. If needed I can add a stop on the axle to keep the bracket from rotating.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

The centerline of the bag is about half an inch forward of the axle centerline, you can see the Firestone mounting holes and the new hole. If needed I can add a stop on the axle to keep the bracket from rotating.

View attachment 582195

Is it safe for me to assume the bag will still be attached at the top and bottom?

 

[Nitromethane43]

There two spring retainers on top and one large one on the bottom. The bottom one can easily be removed and bag tucked up, similar to manual sway bar disconnects if needed.

Sorry brackets are still wet,

Below is in a car, but the same Mount is retained






Lower bag Mount



Lower retainer

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

There two spring retainers on top and one large one on the bottom. The bottom one can easily be removed and bag tucked up, similar to manual sway bar disconnects if needed.

Sorry brackets are still wet,

Below is in a car, but the same Mount is retained

View attachment 582220




Lower bag Mount

View attachment 582219

Lower retainer

View attachment 582221

Thanks for the details!
Will look forward to the results

 

[Betarocker]

This is incorrect. The spring rate dictates the amount of rebound needed, not the type of spring. When you combine the rate of the leafs with the bags you will need a higher rate. It will always be a compromise as your required damping rate changes with how much air you are running.

Running bags attached to the axle is always a bad idea. Almost all rear suspension cycles more than the bags. That is a good way to screw up your bags. A detached bottom mount like what Daystar makes will solve a lot of problems. Airbags only really need to work from ride height to bump.

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Spring rate is a compression resistance factor. If both compression and rebound were equally affected by spring rate, then the damping would be equal as well. My rear shocks (specifically valved for my leaf sprung F350) have way softer compression damping than the very aggressive rebound damping. The coil front springs require less rebound damping comparatively, because of how the kinetic energy is released. Take wooden ruler and hold one end tight to a able and flex the other end up. It doesn't take much effort to make the ruler flex, but when you release, it smacks down with force. Leafs do the same thing. Air springs also release with high energy. I rebuild my shacks, and to get the IFP out I need to pressurize the air chamber. Even with as little as a few psi, it shoots the piston out with velocity usually ripping the rag that is tightly fastened with an elastic.

 

[b dkw1]

Spring rate is a compression resistance factor. If both compression and rebound were equally affected by spring rate, then the damping would be equal as well. My rear shocks (specifically valved for my leaf sprung F350) have way softer compression damping than the very aggressive rebound damping. The coil front springs require less rebound damping comparatively, because of how the kinetic energy is released. Take wooden ruler and hold one end tight to a able and flex the other end up. It doesn't take much effort to make the ruler flex, but when you release, it smacks down with force. Leafs do the same thing. Air springs also release with high energy. I rebuild my shacks, and to get the IFP out I need to pressurize the air chamber. Even with as little as a few psi, it shoots the piston out with velocity usually ripping the rag that is tightly fastened with an elastic.

Your Resi blasting experience is not really a good comparison. The only difference between leafs and bags is the friction in the leafs requires less low speed damping that say a 4 link with bags. Since you are using the bags in conjunction with the leafs, low speed damping increase along with high speed damping is linear. The same could be said for the difference between rubber bushings and uniballs. Your high speed requirements will be the same but you will need less bleed (low speed) with bushings. It has nothing to do with the type of spring.

 

[Regcabguy]

LOL, You will appreciate this then. 2000 Baja 1K just south of Visciano. I ripped a bag on the Dodge chase truck I was driving. Spent another week and 1800 miles going down and back. Best and worst trip ever. Fixing that truck is when I started making My own mounts with floating bottoms.

My camper rarely comes off. I wish i had the bucks to have North County Spring just make me a custom leafpack. Chuck the Carli mini-paks and long travel bags.

 

[Nitromethane43]

They are installed, it was not possible to compress the leaf springs by much since there's no deck, camper or anything of significant weight to see how well they articulate.

I was wondering if any one had any experience if any aftermarket active auto leveling systems on helper bags and how they compare to a static setup?