Power tool batteries as power source?

[john61ct]

Also interesting. Yes Gates had the original AGM patents,

apparently the source of the confusion was that Gylling had to licence those patents from Enersys

since Enersys bought them after the Optima spinoff.

Cyclon is still their spiral brand, but their development of flat plate TPPL was their big innovation.

 

[john61ct]

"Yuasa/Exide Battery Corporation purchased Exide's Industrial Division (Motive Power and stand by batteries) in 1991 to form Yuasa Inc. In 2000, Yuasa Battery Inc. was established when Yuasa Inc. sold its industrial division and sealed lead acid business to Enersys. In 2004, Yuasa Japan merged with Japan Storage Battery to form GS Yuasa"

And Hawker, Gates are names still extant with Enersys' Cyclon line.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Also interesting. Yes Gates had the original AGM patents,

apparently the source of the confusion was that Gylling had to licence those patents from Enersys

since Enersys bought them after the Optima spinoff.

Cyclon is still their spiral brand, but their development of flat plate TPPL was their big innovation.

I only know of these things tangentially living in Denver and orbiting in circles with engineering school classmates who worked there. Gylling is Swedish or Dutch, I forget, and Tomkins is a UK company. So global licensing and patents I could certainly understand being a sticky issue. I don't know if or when Gates Rubber might have spun off or sold Gates Energy. It's entirely possible EnerSys bought up assets and IP.

ETA: It would seem EnerSys must have acquired something from Gates Energy when they got Hawker/Cyclon...

 

[TantoTrailers]

I have a cheap 5kw diesel heater in my rig and it was mentioned that the glow plug is in use to heat up and shut down the unit. This process takes about 3-5 minutes on startup and shut down with 9-11Amp draw on my battery during that time. Not sure if that information is helpful in this discussion.

 

[john61ct]

My source has known the Enersys people for decades.

Swedish.

Yes apparently they got the IP around same time as Hawker but did not acquire the Energy sub as a company.

All by the by now, bottom line is Optima kinda meh for deep cycling since JCI got it or even before with the Mexico move, ling time now.

Great Starter / winching batts though.

 

[llamalander]

I charge and use 18v. Makita batteries in my truck, drawing on the alternator or solar with a 12v. charger. I probably use the USB charger adaptor and the flashlight the most when I'm camping, but they power the few other tools I bring which is handy. Where I have connected them to a 12v pump, the cheap buck-converters available on Amazon have worked well, but only because each battery has a BMS, which Rigid may not. Without the BMS, you risk killing the battery if you run it to empty. Dead dead, not mostly dead.
That said, they are an accessory, and the second battery installed in the truck is what I depend on to power the pump, pad heater and fridge that come camping.

Have you considered upgrading your existing battery to the biggest Deep-Cycle you can fit? If you can squeeze in something over 100ah it is likely worth the effort to move a few things around. Carrying a lithium jump starter will get you going if you ever use too much power, but a larger battery is a minimal investment and might be able to power most of what is on your list and can be easily charged without changing or adding any wiring. Portable solar panels can be plugged in if you find you need them, but short trips won't require it until you get a fridge...

 

[wjeeper]

I have considered upgrading the rigs battery to a single, bigger battery. However the optima I have under the hood is a bit of a running experiment. This year the battery is turning 15 years old. It use to be part of a backup battery bank for GPS CORS station on the top of Mt.Ogden until it got struck by lightning. Its been in several of my vehicles since then. Pic of the station it use to backup:

OP question was, is 9Ah enough for a House bank, including running parking heaters in winter?

Answer is no.

Recharging a screen gadget, a couple LEDs maybe a decent fan for a short time, maybe.

Per my original question its clear to me now that the answer is NO.

I am removing the parking heater from the original equation. It not something I really need. It doesn't keep to the KISS mantra I am following for this build. With a few revisions the concept is something I am definitely going to give a try!

The power tool batteries are expensive for the wattage but for a quick flexable power source you probably already have its not a bad idea. Especially if there is a simple socket you can drop them into that then powers your small basick power needs

This is exactly my thinking! Dude gets it!

 

[wjeeper]

I hadn’t thought about the Battery Management System. Don’t want to go killing a spendy battery!

That's the next piece of research.

 

[luthj]

I am pretty sure many of those tool batteries have a built in cut-off (mini BMS).

 

[john61ct]

I believe in most cases the protective circuitry is built into the charger (balancing and HVC) and the tools (LVC).

In neither case is overcurrent protection likely, since the actual rates are controlled by the vendor's design.

 

[OCC]

wjeeper,

I have toyed with this idea as well and I understand why you want to do it. In fact, that's how I ended up here. I appreciate all of the discussion, but I disagree with some things that have been said.

1. Go with Ryobi instead of Ridgid - I would ONLY do this with Ridgid

• RIDGID HAS FREE BATTERIES FOR LIFE! I have already had 4 NiCads replaced for free.
• Some people have mentioned that you may wreck you batteries, well, Free Batteries for Life!
• Ryobi and Ridgid are the same company. Ryobi is the cheaper line.

2. It is more expensive to go this route

• Perhaps, but if you have Ridgid tools and batteries already then you have great versatility.
• As you said, you do not need the power too often so why spend the money to have it sitting unused?
• With power tool batteries you can use them at home anytime.
• As others have mentioned, you can use the 18v lights, fans and USB charger from Ridgid which will add even more versatility when camping and at home.
• Tool batteries often go on sale. Keep watching Home Depot for sales and promotions. For example, right now I can buy a 2 pack of 4Ah batteries for $150 (Canadian) with free lifetime replacement (you have to be careful here because in the past buying bare batteries only came with a 3 year warranty. It seems this has changed now). A 100Ah name brand Lithium battery is in the range of $1,000 (Cad), so for $1,050 (Cad) I can buy 7 of these packs for a total of 56Ah. (Math Edit: 56Ah @ 18V is equivalent to 84Ah @ 12V) More expensive yes, but you pay for the lifetime replacement and you can use these batteries for all your tools.

3. 9Ah will not be enough for your power needs.

• Just because you mentioned 9Ah does not mean that that is the maximum that you will have.
• I own Ridgid tools and I have probably 20Ah of power with all of the batteries I have.
• If you find you do not have enough power just keep adding batteries. Sure, you will have to manually change batteries, but I think the portability would outweigh this.

4. Charging

• So there is no car charger like there is for Ryobi, but gain, they are the same company and Ryobi seems like the testing grounds for new products so I would think that Ridgid will come out with a car charger soon as well. Once they do then this concept gets even better.
• Actually, just found a video of a guy charging a Ridgid battery with a Ryobi charger so problem solved!

5. Not enough power to run the Espar heater

• What I would do here is test the theory first. Get the unit running off of a temp fuel supply and battery and if it works well then but the 12v converter and hook it up to one of your existing batteries. Put it in your jeep and see how long/well it runs on that battery. If it's a 2Ah battery, then multiply by 4.5 to get a good feel on what it will do on a 9Ah battery.

So to summarize my 2 cents here, I would stick with the Ridgid because of the free batteries. I would not have one "central" battery. Rather I would buy multiple adapters (or use old tool bases) to give each item its own power source. Think more portable tool then hardwired. As you said, lights will not need much power so you could put a smaller battery on that and put the larger battery on the heater (if it works out).