Pro-Rig V2.0 - Home Built Compact Composite Pop-up

[CoyoteThistle]

Well, progress got delayed by the good ol' USPS. I couldn't find the VHB tape primer I needed (Primer 111) locally so I tried the one vendor on Amazon who had it. It said a week to receive it. Fine. Well, within five days it made it to LA, an hour or so away. Next tracking update three days later notified me it had successfully arrived in Denver! Three days back to LA, then right past my house up to Santa Barbara then back down to coast for a total of 13 days. Criminy.

Anyway, that gave me plenty of time to prep things and wonder if I should have kept it simple and light weight and just added foam board. First I gave the big panels that would go on the ceiling two strips of fiberglass. The idea is to spread the load on the panel material out. These are the heaviest panels and are to be adhered to the roof.


In hindsight I don't think I needed to do this. I learned later that the VHB tape sticks very well to the panel material (better than epoxy resin) and that the material is plenty tough.

Also made up some 1" thick edges that will hold the new ceiling in place and leave a small gap between the new ceiling and the VIP's. These will be glued in with 5200 with some wood screws to hold things in place while the glue dries. These are just primed to protect the wood mostly as the only part that will show is the 45-degree angled part which allows access to the Velcro where the tent material attaches.


With wider walls on the slide-up now, I need extra clearance with the door to the propane compartment. I never liked the old one (poly board boat hatch) so this was a chance to make it look better too. I used the latch and hinge from the old hatch and 1/16" aluminum sheet. Finished the edge with some trim-loc rubber edging. It doesn't need to be water tight as it is below the slide up when traveling and in the end, it's just propane tanks and other stuff that can get wet that goes in there. Came out nice I think. Just under 1/4" thick instead of just over 1/2" for the old one was the difference I needed.


Then today, the VIP's went in.

For the walls, I used ~18"X15" panels. Each got three strips of tape in the vertical orientation.


I think the choice to use tape was good. They seem very well adhered, zero worries. Pretty good coverage.


I'll add foam board around the edges where there is space and the new wall panels will be stuck to that with tape. Cutting out the holes for the window in the new walls is giving me anxiety. I want the edges to be nice and tight so I can just add a bead of caulk to finish it off. Any tricks for getting it just right? I'm thinking cardboard template.

And then came the roof panels where things got a little unhinged. Eventually got two of the three big ones up there.


The other one died. My first TWO attempts to stick it were misaligned and I had to rip the thing off. This is how I learned how strong the tape bonds. I had to really yard on the panel to get it off. I figured this would puncture the panel but I had no choice. This is how I learned 1) that the paint is bonded very well to the original ceiling, 2) the bond between the VIP and the epoxy resin isn't as strong (it failed first but not catastrophically), and 3) the panels are tougher than I thought. I had to bend the panel out of the way to get a putty knife in there to chisel at the tape in one stubborn spot. Even with all that, the vacuum held. That panel is beat up so I set it aside.

The passenger side was supposed to get two big panels which would just barely fit. Well, the fiberglass around the edges made the panels just long enough that the second one didn't fit by about a mm. (yes, much more cussing). I have no other use for the big panel and it's misshapen now from all the earlier drama, so I took a chance on grinding down the glass on the ends to see if I could get my mm back. Well, overdid it a bit and I heard the hissing of air getting in. It wasn't going to fit anyway so, well, there you have it. I had an extra panel that was about an inch shorter and narrower that fills the space pretty well.


So, that's where she sits tonight. Progress, but relatively hard earned.

 

[ITTOG]

I'll add foam board around the edges where there is space and the new wall panels will be stuck to that with tape. Cutting out the holes for the window in the new walls is giving me anxiety. I want the edges to be nice and tight so I can just add a bead of caulk to finish it off. Any tricks for getting it just right? I'm thinking cardboard template.

Have you considered a router?

 

[CoyoteThistle]

Have you considered a router?

Good call, hadn't thought of that. Maybe even the dremmel with the little router attachment.

 

[Ramdough]

Good call, hadn't thought of that. Maybe even the dremmel with the little router attachment.

You could also make a wood template for your router to follow. Make the wood template perfect…. May take a few try’s…. Then use a bit with a roller to follow the wood template.


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[CoyoteThistle]

Been making some progress. Passenger side wall was easy, no VIPs.


No VIP's on this side because whoever built this thing only left 1" of space between the slide-up wall and the main wall instead of about 1.5" around the rest of the camper. With the VIP's, I'm adding 15/16" of an inch so it was just too tight. Also, the water filler is on this side and it sticks out a bit, decreasing clearance even more. I may have to modify that, but with just the foam board and new inner wall, this side will be at 3/4" of new material (I used spray adhesive to not add width as well). It's all gonna be tight.

The gaps between the VIPs was filled with foam board.


On the walls, it's attached with some 1/8" thick window glazing tape. The blue stripes are 1/16" thick window glazing tape that the inner walls will be adhered to. The extra thickness of those tapes will give a ~2mm gap between the inner walls and the VIPs.

It's all looking pretty space shippy.

Had fun cutting up the 1/8" luan plywood for the walls and ceiling. Flimsy stuff (not surprisingly). Got the two ceiling and four wall pieces cut. Still scheming on how to do the window cutouts. Router and template/jig seems to be wise. Making the latter still vexing...

Also broke out the sewing machine and started the process of redoing the pop-up material. The basic machine I have handled the material well so I think it will work out.

 

[ITTOG]

Why are you redoing the fabric? Did it fail on you and no longer waterproof? What fabric are you using?

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[CoyoteThistle]

Why are you redoing the fabric? Did it fail on you and no longer waterproof? What fabric are you using?

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The last fabric iteration was vinyl coated PVC and I used the adhesive velcro instead of sewing it in. Big mistake. The adhesive gave up and it became a mess. I also didn't like how stiff that material became in the cold and I didn't like the fact that it was white - a giant glowing bug attraction at night. I also didn't like how I did the window/screen/shade combo.

New material is called Sur Last. A marine type polyester fabric with a urethane coating that makes it essentially waterproof (so they say). At 7 oz. per sq. yard it's a bit lighter than some of the other marine canvases and so far the home sewing machine handles it well.

 

[CoyoteThistle]

I think I left off with cutting holes in the new wall panels for the windows. Here's what I did...

I decided to make a cardboard template and play with that until it was perfect then use it to transfer the cut lines to the actual wall panel. I measured the distance the window is from two edges and the size of the window and drew in the sides.


For the curved corners I found a hole saw that was about the right radius and used it to draw in the curve. Turns out I nailed it on my first attempt. The template seemed just about perfect. Transferring the template to the actual panel was proving fussy and then I figured if I could on-sight the template, I could red-point the real deal.

Drew in the box first.


Corners drawn in


Now the cutting. I decided to use the Dremel in router mode.


I clamped some aluminum angle to the panel to use as a guide for each edge. I finished the corners with the barrel sander on the Dremel. Each side took some fine-tuning but I was finally happy with the result and didn't blow it in any way. Took all afternoon but I had two panels with holes in them at the end of the day.


Next up was painting all the roof and wall panels. Got a couple coats of (expensive!) paint on that is the same as the original interior paint. Did some test fitting of the front and rear walls and rehearsed how to get the panels aligned on the first try. Using adhesives in nice in a lot of ways but you kind of only get one chance to align it right. In the end I got two just right and two a little off. But they are up and I can hide the errors during finishing.




That was the first stressful process of the day. The next was seeing if my calculations were right where the spacing between the slide-up and camper walls is pretty tight. First I checked the clearance on the water filler.


I didn't expect this to clear and it just didn't. That ruler is flush against the new inner wall so it's outer face is the wall spacing. Since I already broke the cap on this filler (slid up and down without securing the cap once) I'm not concerned with "modifying" it. I removed the cap and used the grinder to take a bit off the filler itself. The result is that it clears by maybe 1/8".


Good for now. That dark line is the ruler edge. It's tight. I'll get a rubber stopper that fits down in the filler cap until I can find a permanent solution. Suggestions for a low profile filler anyone?

Checked clearance on the new propane compartment door and it looked okay as well (just). Did a very cautious first descent of the slide-up and was hugely relieved when it all went fine. I'll worry about finishing the edges on the walls later. On to ceiling panels and strut mounts...

 

[Anton2k3]

Excellent progress and looking very smart. Hope you never have to remove any of it!

 

[CoyoteThistle]

Excellent progress and looking very smart. Hope you never have to remove any of it!

Thanks. And yes, removal is not an option!! I had no plan B if those narrow tolerances went the wrong way. Nerve wracking for sure.

 

[CoyoteThistle]

Still making progress. Got the new ceiling in, which was a bit of challenge single handed. In the end, it went in as planned and everything lined up except one of the holes for the lights. I was able to solve that problem and it's all in place except a trim piece to cover the joint between the two panels.


Paper towel holder, hooks, and pull-down handle re-installed. Those are the essentials up there so left it at that for now. Other important upgrade is new gas struts and mounts. With the bottom of the mounts now at the back corners, it's a much stronger setup. With the extra weight of the new insulation and the fact that the last 60 lb struts barely kept up the old roof in the cold, I went up to 80 lb struts.

And then, after much procrastination, I started in on sewing the new pop-up fabric. After doing a complicated combo screen/window/shade on the last iteration, I kept it simple this time. Just a non-opening window and a shade.


Tried to match the new color scheme on the rest of the camper. Need to get it out in the sun to see how good the match is. Other than a few screw-ups that left me ripping out a few feet of stitches, a couple times, the back panel is almost done. The new gas struts put a nice amount of tension on the fabric. Should be nice and tight if I can get the rest of the sewing right.


The keen observer will notice the roof vent is installed in the last photo. I used the dremel with the same blade to cut through the new ceiling from the outside. I did it freehand as a messy cut wont show. Solar panel reinstalled too.

Fabric for the sides is cut out. Just more sewing in of velcro around the edges then turning the three pieces into one. Snow finally in the forecast for the Sierras. Better get this thing done!

 

[CoyoteThistle]

Well, instead of finishing the sewing or the trim pieces for the new walls and ceiling, I put the mostly finished camper on the truck and got out of town. Final steps were installing the doors and solar panel. I also installed a cheap 4-channel remote control/relay thingy off Amazon for the lifters. This way I can stand back and make sure it is going up and down evenly front to back. The switches are locking as opposed to momentary and that is not good. Things can get crazy once you hit the wrong combination of up/down and front/back and don't know how to just stop everything (i.e., run for the power switch). I spent the extra money and got the 4-channel remote with momentary switches from Firgelli. Won't arrive in time for this trip so I just have to be careful. I mostly was but there will be some touch-up painting to do on the interior walls where things got crazy. No real damage done. The slide up seal will be strips of foam stuffed in there by hand for now like I did with the orginal attempt at the slide-up seal when it got cold.

I was in a rush but tried to check everything as I went to get it all on right and all the systems working. With minimal (none) testing, I headed out. The original plan was to head to Mammoth and camp in my friends driveway. At the last minute we said screw Mammoth and its wind and over-hyped snow forecasts and lifts that don't open. We're going to Utah! I decided the extra couple hours of driving it takes to cut across Nevada was worth it versus I-15. Met up with my buddy Dave from Mammoth and his son at a bivy site I know just past Tonopah. First coldish (low 30's) night with the new insulation. Got the inside up to about 60*, turned the thermostat to the lowest setting (which is about 37*) and went to sleep. Woke up early and the camper was still in the mid 40's. This seemed like a big improvement. The heater didn't run at all over night. Normally at these temps with the pop-up down, it would run regularly. Good early sign. Colder and wetter nights to come.

I spent the next six nights in SLC and it got progressively colder each night, bottoming out at 17* Wednesday night. Did the same evening heating routine and down to the mid 20's, the heater didn't come on at night. It cycled a few times that coldest night. This is a HUGE improvement. Previously, anything below about 25* had it cycling constantly and it was almost impossible to get it up to 60* and stay there. I think these VIP's are working as advertised (though I guess no on advertises them for use in a camper). I read somewhere on this forum from a wiser builder than I something to the effect of "the structure of the camper and the insulation of the camper are two different things". I get it now. The 1-inch thick panels I built the camper out of are plenty strong. The added insulation is non-structural but super effective.

Anyway, the skiing was great. We got some powder Sat and Sun at Snowbird/Alta. Dave's son, who is 13 is a little ripper. He was losing his mind over all the little rocks to huck off of. None of us know the mountain so we just followed tracks into the trees and through avi control gates. The terrain at Snowbird is especially epic (though so are the moguls, I've never seen 6-foot tall ice-moguls, in the trees...). Afterward, we piled into the camper, cranked the heater and enjoyed beers and hot chocolate. Keeping the kid warm and hydrated is key to happiness for all!


Bigger storm forecast for Tuesday so I stuck around and they headed home for work and school. Had an epic day at Alta skiing the storm day.


Drove home the next day across the basin and range again, this time with a fresh layer of snow. Love this area.


It was a cold day and I left the heater on that lowest setting to keep water and battery above freezing. It was running on and off while driving. My battery heating system worked as designed down to the lowest temps yet.

Oh and also, I don't know if it's the new paint job or Utahans in general (I expect the latter), the camper got a lot more attention/compliments than usual on this trip. All very nice folks including the guy who was working me pretty hard to sell it to him! Part of the fun.

I think all the work, cost, and headaches of getting the insulation in were worth it. It's getting closer to a real 4-season camper now.

 

[CoyoteThistle]

Here it is almost ski season again and no updates here since Utah?! Seems like a long time ago...

So, the camper has been getting lots of use. Good spring skiing trips to Mammoth.


Wanted to take the motorbike along so tried out camper with trailer back in the spring too. Using an 18" hitch extender to get the ball out beyond the camper:


Worked well. Return trip home was in an epic wind storm that had Hwy 395 closed to anything remotely high profile - but they let me through. 80mph crosswinds, semi's on their sides, pretty insane. Truck handled just fine though. Another plus for a low-profile camper!

With ski season finally over I wanted to take the camper off the truck and was ready to try something new:


Pro-Rig the trailer is born! Been thinking about building a trailer from scratch for it for some time, but with the cost of steel through the roof and a lack of time for a bigger project, I went with a 6'X8' flat bed from Trailers Plus, which is pretty local for me. No mods to the camper needed, it'll go back on the truck for winter and 4X4 trips.

Minor modifications (sawzall) to the low side rails in the back so the wide back part of the camper fits and the loading ramp can fold forward flat under the camper. This left room on the front for storage and bike carrying.


It was nice on a couple trips where I was planning to basically stay put and ride, ski, fish, whatever, from more of a base camp.


And with the hitch extender, I was able to put the motorbike in the truck with the tailgate down and have all the toys I wanted and the ability to drive about without breaking camp (which it seems to me is the only obvious advantage of trailer vs. truck-mounted when camping).

I eventually need to finish the storage/woodwork and paint it to match the camper, but that's just another project on the list. I've had other priorities for upgrades and replacements.

Oh, and spoiler alert, my first experience buying kit from Expedition Upfitters, who seems to have a good repuation around here, has left a sour taste in my mouth, details to follow...

 

[WildernessSV]

The Pro-Rig trailer is excellent! I’ve been thinking on a way to do this type of setup where you can swap between truck and utility trailer. Glad to hear it worked out for you without much modification.


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[CoyoteThistle]

On a late summer trip I went to turn on the hot water heater and heard a click and then nothing. When I got home, I pulled it out and found basically what I suspected:


The heating element was totally corroded up. The sacrificial magnesium anode is the piece where the drain plug connects. It's so corroded I can't remove it. I guess I could get out the breaker bar, but I suspect it would do more damage than good. It also seems that Seaward no longer sells this anode that integrates the drain. I started looking for a new water heater.

There are a lot more (affordable) options out there than there were just a few years ago. In the end I decided to stay electric when I found a fairly new option from Expedition Upfitters.


Most importantly it fits in the space available. It's smaller in storage volume, lower in current draw, and seems better insulated than the old one. All good points for my needs.

Their website was pretty light on details. An email inquiry about the actual dimensions of the unit was partially answered (website dimensions were the size of the box, not the unit it seems). Smaller was better though and it fit in my space okay. Then it came to hooking up the water in and out. The heater came with a drain/pressure relief valve and two converters from BSP to NFT (rest of the world threads to North American threads). Their directions said to attach the converters first with teflon tape. Did that. Added the valve to the input side. Water leaks all over the place. Emailed EU and the helpful reply said to attach the valve first, then the adapter (with teflon tape). Did that and pointed out in a reply that their directions are wrong. Anyway, still leaks. Sent another email and started to do some research. The valve had a rubber washer at the female connection. Seems that there are BSP threads that are tapered (like NFT) and need teflon tape to seal. There is also a parallel thread version that requires a rubber washer. Another email asking if the threads needed a rubber washer or teflon tape. Not waiting for a reply this time, I ordered adapters with washers from Amazon to test my theory. With some modifications, they worked and the leaks are sealed up.

Several days later I got the reply from EU asking if the rubber seals worked. Seems they have no clue what threads this unit has and are shipping it with adapters that are essentially useless. So, a bunch of frustrating trial and error, extra cost, and a cancelled trip later, what should have been a 30min install took over a week but is finally working. Replies from EU were friendly but not apologetic. Disappointed.

Did a quick test and got hot water out of it. Won't have time to do more for a few weeks. Will report back after I use it. It looks like a nice unit. Power draw is 200w as stated.

Anyway, on a more positive note, I finally settled on a way to raise and lower the slide up from outside the camper where I can watch and keep the front and back going up even. Bailed on the wireless remote and made a wired remote


It's a 7-pin hitch plug to a box with two reversing momentary switches. Female hitch plug is in the outside storage compartment. Plug it in, throw the power switch inside the camper, and stand back and raise and lower it nice and evenly. Glad to have this figured out.

Still need to finish off corners around the new interior walls. The VHB tape is holding them up well. The spray adhesive used on the wall with just foam insulation is not. Using mechanical fasteners on that now since it's okay to put screws through foam. Simple fix.

And I am still loving the extra insulation - such a big difference. Still sealing the gap between the slide up with strips of foam, but I think I have a plan to make that a little more pro. Next project...