Propane Basics For Build

[MT-Camper]

Hey everyone. I'm still getting familiar with the forum and I apologize if this is obviously covered somewhere already. If you know of a thread or resource please point me toward it.

I bought this camper, a Teton Traveler (no longer in business) almost a year ago. It was a finished but empty shell.






I need a bit more comfort. I've built a dinette, and I'm in the process of adding a basic sink setup on one side, two-burner stovetop on the other. A previous owner had installed a catalytic Wave heater. They just drilled a hole in the side and fed a soft line straight from the regulator on the tank, to the heater.

Most things I can handle with my limited knowledge, but I've never built a propane system. I've worked on existing systems, but never built one.

It seems like soft propane lines are ok for exterior, but hard lines are recommended (required?) for interior. I just ordered 20' of 3/8" type L copper propane line, along with bending and flaring tools. I can handle that part. It's all the connections I'm unsure about. How do research and find what connector I need for the exterior soft line to interior hard line? Do the hard lines run through the wall, and the connection is outside the camper? How and where is that connection/transition made? Once I'm at the hard line, I'll need a Y or T. Just the two appliances. I think that Y happens inside the camper, not outside? I know I want to limit the joints inside, but it doesn't seem like I should be drilling two separate holes in the camper for the copper line running to each appliance.

I think I can contact Wave for the heater and Suburban for the gas cooktop to ask those companies what connectors to use from their appliances to my 3/8" hard copper line, but I'm unsure about the rest of the connections.

I really appreciate any insights...Seems like mostly what I'm asking for is advice on the soft to hard line and exterior to interior installation/transition/methods and connector/adaptors.

 

[Buddha.]

In most of the new rvs I see they run a rubber hose from the regulator to a hardline, steel I think that’s runs the distance underneath. They hook the rubber line to that and go up through a hole in the floor, up to the appliance. They also spray foam over the kinked rubber lines and make it difficult to diagnose why the stove doesn’t work.

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

Some lpg suppliers can make up pretty much anything you require, much
Easier than bending and flaring.

 

[MT-Camper]

In most of the new rvs I see they run a rubber hose from the regulator to a hardline, steel I think that’s runs the distance underneath. They hook the rubber line to that and go up through a hole in the floor, up to the appliance. They also spray foam over the kinked rubber lines and make it difficult to diagnose why the stove doesn’t work.

So the rubber lines go inside the rv, to the appliance, not a copper line? That'd be a lot easier, I just got the impression that interior rubber lines don't meet code (not that anyone's checking).

 

[MT-Camper]

Some lpg suppliers can make up pretty much anything you require, much
Easier than bending and flaring.

Thanks. I just worry about the cost. With labor rates well over $100/hr, I can buy all the supplies I need for the cost of just labor. I mostly enjoy doing this stuff, so I don't factor my time spent into the equation too strictly.

 

[Fenderfour]

A full propane can is around 300 psi. The regulator pulls it down to 2-3psi (low pressure) or 7-10 psi (high pressure). Low pressure is better for 90% of uses. if you think you need 20,000 BTUs in your camper you will need high pressure, otherwise stick with low. Having the regulator at the can is great to lower the overall risk to all of your fittings.

Flaring and fitting low-pressure propane is easy. All the parts you need are at the home improvement store. You can use barb fittings with pipe clamps to transition to flexible lines at the tank/regulator since the gas is at a lower pressure. Black pipe is also good for propane. If you use threaded fittings, you don't specifically need yellow tape, since propane doesn't have the same chemical as natural gas, but if anyone inspects your system and sees white tape they will have an issue because "Yellow tape is for gas".

 

[MT-Camper]

Hey thanks, that helps. Current setup from previous owner is just a propane tank with a hose connected to it, running to the Wave heater with just the most basic single-stage regulator. It works fine, but my pull-behind camper has a two-stage, and that seems like the right way to go for this, too. I've used yellow tape in the past and probably still have some. Either way, I'll use yellow, because why not.

Maybe it's best to state what I plan to do, and please poke holes in it or make suggestions on how to improve.

Drill a hole in the side of the camper. Put a length of copper line through it, just enough to stick out an inch or two on both the inside and outside. Attach the soft hose from the tank to the outside end, using whatever adapters are necessary. Add a two-stage (likely low pressure) regulator somewhere along that soft, outdoor line. Attach a T to the inside end, and run two lines from there, bending them however they need to bend to reach the stovetop and heater.
_________________
I should look up what each appliance uses. Not sure what a two burner stovetop and catalytic heater draw, but it shouldn't be hard to find those specs.

 

[simple]

There is a whole set of standards for RV's like building code that detail the requirements for things like a propane system. If you dig around, you should be able to find it for free and use as a guideline.

 

[Fenderfour]

There is a whole set of standards for RV's like building code that detail the requirements for things like a propane system. If you dig around, you should be able to find it for free and use as a guideline.

There are standards. You have to buy them from RVIA. Surprisingly inexpensive, about $250 for the full set

 

[simple]

Here's a link to a copy on a google drive. NF 1192

 

[Alloy]

A previous owner had installed a catalytic Wave heater. They just drilled a hole in the side and fed a soft line straight from the regulator on the tank, to the heater.

It's OK to run a Wave or Mr. Buddy heater inside until the day it's not. On that day you'll either be sick and wish you never saved a few $$.....or dead.

It seems like soft propane lines are ok for exterior,

Go to a RV dealer and take some pictures of the propane systems

but hard lines are recommended (required?) for interior.

Required to be continuous from the appliance to outside

I just ordered 20' of 3/8" type L copper propane line, along with bending and flaring tools. I can handle that part.

There a few tricks to flaring. A sharp tube cutter that doesn't roll the edge of the tube. De-burring the tube 110%. A really good tube clamp so the tubing doesn't slide and flaring tool

It's all the connections I'm unsure about. How do research and find what connector I need for the exterior soft line to interior hard line? Do the hard lines run through the wall, and the connection is outside the camper? How and where is that connection/transition made? Once I'm at the hard line, I'll need a Y or T. Just the two appliances. I think that Y happens inside the camper, not outside? I know I want to limit the joints inside, but it doesn't seem like I should be drilling two separate holes in the camper for the copper line running to each appliance.

Copper has to go through the wall/floor.....as stated above continuous from the appliance to outside..... no T's or Unions inside

I really appreciate any insights...Seems like mostly what I'm asking for is advice on the soft to hard line and exterior to interior installation/transition/methods and connector/adaptors.

Install a propane alarm and use a CO monitor

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Test the system

 

[MT-Camper]

Thank you, that answers a lot of questions.

I follow the directions on the wave heater and keep a window and the roof vent cracked. I don't prefer the catalytic heater but heater but it's there already and works great. And is fully approved for this use case.

 

[Alloy]

Thank you, that answers a lot of questions.

I follow the directions on the wave heater and keep a window and the roof vent cracked. I don't prefer the catalytic heater but heater but it's there already and works great. And is fully approved for this use case.

A window/vent cracked open isn't any more effective as removing 2nd hand cigarette smoke as it is CO.

I knew a couple that used a X? year old catalytic heater in their home. When they were found the CO alarm was going off.

"Catalyst pad poisoning can cause lowered heat output and
release of unburned or partially burned gas. Operation of
the heater in the event of catalyst poisoning may result in
the dangers of fire, explosion and/or production of carbon
monoxide. Injury, death and/or property damage can result.
The heater should be taken out of service and returned to
the factory or taken to a qualified LP Gas technician to have
the catalyst pad replaced before it is used again."

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Basics

CDC works with national, state, local, and other partners to raise awareness about CO poisoning and

www.cdc.gov

"Each year, more than 400 Americans die from unintentional CO poisoning not linked to fires, more than 100,000 visit the emergency room, and more than 14,000 are hospitalized."
Cheers,
Peter

 

[MT-Camper]

Well I'll look into it more. I don't tend to live dangerously and I don't dismiss well-intentioned advice. The Wave heater is built with this use as one of the intended uses, and has specific instructions on use indoors. Just curious if people are suggesting that a catalytic heater isn't meant to be used indoors, or if, even though they are meant to be used indoors, you don't trust them?

This isn't a case of improper use.

Any gas appliance in an enclosed space poses a CO risk. Are catalytic heaters especially dangerous, even if used correctly? Honest question, I'm new to them.

Wave Heater instructions-