Proper Tongue Weight

[Photog]

Too true, I was talked into just having the Jeep first and then the whole match on the scale. I am headed back to have the Jeep done alone, thanks for waking me up. I did manage to jury rig a scale for the tongue and I came up with a whopping 325 pounds, got me wondering.
Thanks once again to all..

If both scales are correct, then your trailer should come out to about 1800 lbs., and the Jeep alone should be about 4860 lbs.

If this is all correct, the weight in your trailer should be redistributed to provide a tongue weight of 180 - 270 lbs. Probably 250 lbs, since you don't have the water & gin yet.

250 is tough to lift by hand, for most people. It can be done with a nylon strap, like movers use for heavy furniture.

 

[Steve Curren]

I should find out either tomorrow or the first of next week what the Jeep is. The water is no problem, gin is another matter.. I also did not have all the weight in the rear of the trailer, I am putting an ice chest back there with nothing but ice so that should add about 60 pounds and also the fridge is unloaded. I also have to consider the water as it also is empty and will remain so until Ajo next month.
Thanks again,
Steve

 

[Martyn]

Steve

If memory serves me correctly you have a deep cycle battery in the nose box. Then I remember you were thinking about putting a second battery in the nose box. The batteries are around 60 lbs each.

Am I thinking of the right Steve Curren? Or are you the Steve Curren who fills his nose box full of helium balloons? :wings:

I'm trying to work out why your tongue weight could be so high. Last time we spoke you had the opposite problem ??? Or was that Steve "Helium" Curren. But seriously!

 

[Steve Curren]

I have indeed put a second battery in and they are 75 each, two 5 gallon cans and water but not filled. I think my problem last time was I had to much weight in the rear and no second battery. This time I have the weight mostly in front of the axle and I still have to load food and libations in the fridge. There also exists the possiblilty that the scale lied to me, would not be the first time. I might try to get my buddy to go in half on a scale so we can really get the idea. Speaking of ideas if you have any please let me know and I will make it worth your while.. I pay in tequila or single malt.


:gunt:

 

[ntsqd]

I took a pic of the device that I described, though it's not a great one. In the dark, etc. Sorry for cutting off part of the torque wrench.
Anyway, with a helper and his/her piece of paper, this simple tool, and a beam type torque wrench you can 'weigh' any time you like.

 

[Photog]

With you new WalMart scale, and the plywood, try standing on the scale, and check your own weight. This will tell you if it is close to being accurate. Don't forget to zero it with the plywood on top. Wouldn't want you to think you gained a bit of weight.:jumping:

 

[Grim Reaper]

If both scales are correct, then your trailer should come out to about 1800 lbs., and the Jeep alone should be about 4860 lbs.

If this is all correct, the weight in your trailer should be redistributed to provide a tongue weight of 180 - 270 lbs. Probably 250 lbs, since you don't have the water & gin yet.

250 is tough to lift by hand, for most people. It can be done with a nylon strap, like movers use for heavy furniture.

I would agree that 200-250 would be a goal. Lighter then that if the trailer is bucking on a washboard road you might loose tongue weight momentarily or have a bounce as the trailer hits the ripples. People also don't realize that trailers become an air foil at hwy speed you may actually get lift on the front of the trailer and loose tongue weight the faster you go.

I have a little cargo trailer and there is a BIG difference in 50lb against the front wall and empty (making about a 20-25lb difference in tongue weight). without the weight the trailer gets a very irritating bounce at around 45mph. It actually decreased when I put the load rack on roof that disturbed the airflow. I will be adding a nose box with a big battery that will add about 75lb of tongue weight. Hate to loose the ability to easily move it around by hand but I have had a different cargo trailer get wild on me at 70mph and I will feel a LOT safer with the extra tongue weight.

 

[Steve Curren]

I took everything except the kitchen fridge out of the back, gas cans off too, no water.. There are two Lifeline batteries that are @75 each in her nose.. Even with 002 on her diet I still see a tongue weight of 289, If I loaded more heavy items into the rear I still would need a lot to offset the water. I guess I could put bricks in her back, anyone have ideas?
Thanks,
Steve

 

[Martyn]

Steve

In their basic form we build our trailer close to balanced. By that I mean that a chassis and main box has very little tongue weight.

If you think of the trailer as a see saw then the pivot point would be the center of the tire. If we assume the main box is centered over the pivot point then if I added a brick weighing 100 lbs to the front of the main box and one of the same weight to the back of the main box there would be no change in tongue weight because they would balance themselves out. Mathematically it’s a distance from the center point multiplied by weight equation. (L X W) = (L X W)

Toward the tongue of the trailer you have a water tank, can holders and fuel cans, and a nose box. Lets say that weighs 80 lbs and its center of mass is 60 inches in front of the pivot point. To balance this weight by placing a brick at the back of the main box (center of mass 30”) the brick would need to weigh 160 lbs.

So it’s a balancing act. To reduce your tongue weight you need to do one of two things.

1) Counterbalance the weight on the tongue with weight behind the axle
2) Move the weight in front of the axle either closer to the axle or behind it.

To achieve the second choice you want to make sure you load heavier items behind the axle. and consider relocating your fridge to behind the axle.

As you have 150 lbs of battery placed out at the extremity of the trailer counterbalancing that weight will be difficult. If you are unable to bring the tongue weight down to something reasonable you may also want to consider moving one battery into the main box.

 

[robert j. yates]

If you are unable to bring the tongue weight down to something reasonable you may also want to consider moving one battery into the main box.

Martyn.....Mario has some nifty aluminum battery boxes sitting in the shop for me to do just that. I do not recall the name but maybe he can post them up here for everyones info.

 

[Photog]

I took everything except the kitchen fridge out of the back, gas cans off too, no water.. There are two Lifeline batteries that are @75 each in her nose.. Even with 002 on her diet I still see a tongue weight of 289, If I loaded more heavy items into the rear I still would need a lot to offset the water. I guess I could put bricks in her back, anyone have ideas?
Thanks,
Steve

Is there a specific reason you have most of the heavy items up on the front?

This does not always work; but I like to place the expendable stuff (water, fuel) over the axle, or just in front of it. As the water and fuel are used up, the balance does not change. Then all the remaining items can be located in a way that controls the tongue weight.

If you load all your heavy stuff in the front and back, you can still control the tongue weight; but the load will want to bend the trailer around the axle. With the heavier items moved closer to the axle, the stress on the structure will be lower.

Like I said, this is not always attainable.

Cheers!

 

[Martyn]

Is there a specific reason you have most of the heavy items up on the front?

This does not always work; but I like to place the expendable stuff (water, fuel) over the axle, or just in front of it. As the water and fuel are used up, the balance does not change. Then all the remaining items can be located in a way that controls the tongue weight.

If you load all your heavy stuff in the front and back, you can still control the tongue weight; but the load will want to bend the trailer around the axle. With the heavier items moved closer to the axle, the stress on the structure will be lower.

Like I said, this is not always attainable.

Cheers!

Brian

Not having enough tongue weight is usually the problem, not the other way around. In this case the gross tongue weight is compounded by having 150 lbs of batteries cantilevered so far out. The dual battery set up isn't usually an issue with the Horizon as the trailer is shorter.

As with everything trailer design is a series of compromises. One of the most important things for owners is covered storage space. So if we put the batteries and water inside the main box there would be considerable loss of storage space.

Placing a water tank under the trailer is an option, but it would require support brackets, skid plate, electric pump, and filler spout. All of which would increase costs, which as you have seen people are very concerned about.

An other issue is accessibility. The tongue area is easily accessible so if you want water or fuel it's right there with no concerns if any fluids are spilled. For the fuel the safety factor of having the cans inside the chassis is major. Mounting fuel cans in any exposed area is of some concern.

Having the batteries isolated in the nose box is beneficial as it means all of the major electrical components are in one area, batteries, solar, breakaway, junction box, main cable from vehicle.

We do see variations between trailers, where customers choose to mount the water tank inside the main box and then move the fuel cans back one slot to where the water tank was. We have even done this set up with an oversized nose box to take up the space left where the fuel cans were.

In the majority of cases we find the following to be true.

A trailer is always packed full, sometimes over full.
The majority of trailers achieve good tongue weight when packed accordingly.

From a safety view point tongue weight is only considered dangerous if it is less than the 10 -15 %. When moving the trailer by hand a lighter tongue weight is more desirable. A heavy tongue weight would be considered detrimental if it was over compressing the rear suspension to a point where travel was limited.

 

[Tucson T4R]

I still plan to weigh the tonque weight of KK but as a guess I would say it well over 300LBS, possibly 400LBS. That's why I added the Air bag assists to my rear suspension. With the air cranked up a bit, the suspension handles this added wieght with no problem.

I'll get around to getting an actual measurment since you guys have perked my interest now.

 

[Photog]

Martyn,
I feel for you. Design compromises have always been an issue.
Right after I posted the suggestion, I tracked down what trailer he has. The Chaser is SWEET! It does keep things in handy locations (water , fuel, etc).

How much tongue weight is the nose of the Chaser designed to carry (dynamicly).

Since batteries are relatively small for their weight, could they be placed in a tray, below the main box, between the axles? (I know... it is easy to come up with ideas, after a product is designed.)

 

[Steve Curren]

I took out the second battery and then I took everything out of the rear. I packed with all heavy items to the rear and lighter ones to the front, I have not filled the water nor have I put ice into the chest not to mention the items in the fridge, the gin was in. I was at a tongue weight of 240, I figure with all filled and rolling I should be pretty close to the 10-15%. I plan on moving the battery to the rear and if Martyn or Mario might wish to show off the box I would love to see it, I might even trade something for one...:jump: