Push-button 4x4, thought?
- Thread starter just eric
- Start date
BKCowGod
Automotive ADHD is fun!
I have never liked push button... Nothing wrong with it - in theory, it should be just as reliable as the push button radio and push button fans. But I just like pulling up on that lever and feeling it go into gear.
I have an 08 Tacoma and I really hate the plastic knob.
My 1st outing with it I couldn't get 4Lo locked in and then it magically locked in when I shut the truck off for a few minutes, same thing when trying to get it back into 4Hi
Took it to the dealer and showed the tech with about 5 failed attempts, he took my truck in the shop and the service manager comes and gets me about a half hour later, claims nothing wrong and hands me a print out from the owners manual and says I need to push the clutch all the way too the floor.
I smiled, jumped in the truck, stood on the clutch, flipped the knob and no go, moved the truck ahead and tried again, backed the truck up and tried again, turned the truck off and tossed him the keys and said "I will be in the customer lounge"
They puttered with it for a while and it is a little better but certainly far from being reliable, I always find myself saying a prayer before turning it.
30 years of driving Toyota's and never before have I sat on a trail and calculated how long it is going to take me to drive 80 miles home in Lowrange :smiley_drive:
My 1st outing with it I couldn't get 4Lo locked in and then it magically locked in when I shut the truck off for a few minutes, same thing when trying to get it back into 4Hi
Took it to the dealer and showed the tech with about 5 failed attempts, he took my truck in the shop and the service manager comes and gets me about a half hour later, claims nothing wrong and hands me a print out from the owners manual and says I need to push the clutch all the way too the floor.
I smiled, jumped in the truck, stood on the clutch, flipped the knob and no go, moved the truck ahead and tried again, backed the truck up and tried again, turned the truck off and tossed him the keys and said "I will be in the customer lounge"
They puttered with it for a while and it is a little better but certainly far from being reliable, I always find myself saying a prayer before turning it.
30 years of driving Toyota's and never before have I sat on a trail and calculated how long it is going to take me to drive 80 miles home in Lowrange :smiley_drive:
WASURF63
Adventurer
I was skeptical of the transfer case gear lever when they first became available on Toyota 4WD's. I thought manual locking hubs were the only safe, solid bet at that time. The transfer case lever proved to be very reliable and convienent over the years.
Next I was skeptical of the bush button 4WD selector buttons when they first came out. Now I've had those on a few Toyota 4WD's since thier introduction. Never had one malfunction yet.
They definately take up less room in the front of the cab...?
I've owned Toyota trucks since the early '80's, rented them in other countries over the years, and have never been stranded by any of them. Just lucky I guess.
Hell, for all we know the transfer case operation of the future could be digital push button, then voice command activated after that...?
Some of the younger guys on here will be around to see that. They'll be skeptical until they test it for a while too. :costumed-smiley-007
WS
Next I was skeptical of the bush button 4WD selector buttons when they first came out. Now I've had those on a few Toyota 4WD's since thier introduction. Never had one malfunction yet.
They definately take up less room in the front of the cab...?
I've owned Toyota trucks since the early '80's, rented them in other countries over the years, and have never been stranded by any of them. Just lucky I guess.
Hell, for all we know the transfer case operation of the future could be digital push button, then voice command activated after that...?
Some of the younger guys on here will be around to see that. They'll be skeptical until they test it for a while too. :costumed-smiley-007
WS
Jedd
Observer
Dont like it. Dont like it at all. I know in some ways it's a lot easier, but I have had issues with the electric motors working in very sub zero temperatures. Also the shift into 4 low is very tricky....once you figure it out it's fine, but still a pain.
For those who dont know. The sequence is (for a standard at least): Shift into neutral, set park brake, push clutch pedal alllllll the way down, flip switch to 4lo, it will engage, then release park brake, shift into gear and away you go. If your diligint about the process it will work every time, at least it has for me (aside from the very cold temps)
For those who dont know. The sequence is (for a standard at least): Shift into neutral, set park brake, push clutch pedal alllllll the way down, flip switch to 4lo, it will engage, then release park brake, shift into gear and away you go. If your diligint about the process it will work every time, at least it has for me (aside from the very cold temps)
Applejack
Explorer
I've heard of some people having problems and I did not have any such issues on my '05. The only thing that sometimes needed to be done is to roll the truck forward or backward a little to get it to make to switch from Hi to Lo.
I do like to lever of my 4Runner better but even with it I've had trouble getting it into 4Lo when the drive train is a little bound up.
I do like to lever of my 4Runner better but even with it I've had trouble getting it into 4Lo when the drive train is a little bound up.
AlexJet
Explorer
Having a handle much nicer from estetics perspective. I've seen sticks which only decorative, as the mechanism was operated electronically. My 2001 4Runner has a handle and a "4WD" button on it, so switching from 2 to 4wd is done by pressing a button and switch from Hi to Lo by moving a handle. I think FJ has more original schematic.
I personally prefer a hadle as I like it this way and it make the interior look better, but seems that the design is following public trend which wants as less as possible controls. I don't think that electronic dial is bad, just a different system. Look at the latest vehicles, you have i-drives and all othger systems, some drivers doesn't know where the Hi-beam switch is and if it exists, etc. In my opinion trrend is bad, as drivers become more reliable to electronics and doesn't want to DRIVE the car.There is only small crowd of enthusiast like we who still want have a control and prefer mechanical system over electrical as they gives you more control and much easier to troubleshoot and repair in the middle of nowhere. But thats just us, small percentage, so I'm afraid we can see worse scenarios in the future....
I personally prefer a hadle as I like it this way and it make the interior look better, but seems that the design is following public trend which wants as less as possible controls. I don't think that electronic dial is bad, just a different system. Look at the latest vehicles, you have i-drives and all othger systems, some drivers doesn't know where the Hi-beam switch is and if it exists, etc. In my opinion trrend is bad, as drivers become more reliable to electronics and doesn't want to DRIVE the car.There is only small crowd of enthusiast like we who still want have a control and prefer mechanical system over electrical as they gives you more control and much easier to troubleshoot and repair in the middle of nowhere. But thats just us, small percentage, so I'm afraid we can see worse scenarios in the future....
Harald Hansen
Explorer
A push-button setup will transfer less noise and vibration into the cab than a mechanical linkage. For long-range driving this will be a comfort factor.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Unless you're just trying to be funny, you sound like you're confusing the t-case shift lever with the ADD. The ADD takes the place of the hubs (that is, it unlocks the wheels from the front axle), the T-case lever shifts the t-case into and out of 4wd. On modern Toyotas, activating the T-case control (whether by switch or lever) also activates the ADD but they are different parts performing different functions.
IOW, there's no such thing as a vehicle with locking hubs but without a t-case control of some kind.
nobodyspecial
Observer
I have never been a fan of push button 4x4. I think of it like this, I have to rely on an electric motor to shift my transfercase for me, where as with a manual I am the motor that shifts my transfercase.
I know its not a Toyota, but if it means anything I am swapping a manual transfercase into my Mercury Mountaineer, just to take one more electrical component out of the loop.
I know its not a Toyota, but if it means anything I am swapping a manual transfercase into my Mercury Mountaineer, just to take one more electrical component out of the loop.
the old days
Yes, there is something satisfying by moving a manual transfer case shift lever. It makes the driver feel in control.
But I also remember spending a half hour plus at a trail head attempting to get a manual transfer case out of 4 lo and into 2hi after running a trail in an FJ. Driving if forward, and backwards and pushing and pulling on the lever and cussing at it the whole time. I personally like the shift on the fly transfer case.
Yes, there is something satisfying by moving a manual transfer case shift lever. It makes the driver feel in control.
But I also remember spending a half hour plus at a trail head attempting to get a manual transfer case out of 4 lo and into 2hi after running a trail in an FJ. Driving if forward, and backwards and pushing and pulling on the lever and cussing at it the whole time. I personally like the shift on the fly transfer case.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
My $0.02:
This is a pet peeve of mine regarding newer 4x4s.
The only vehicle I ever had a problem shifting the manual T-case lever was my '71 Blazer. But then again, it had been rebuilt and otherwise messed with over its life (I owned it from '83 to '85) so it's not like it came that way from the factory.
OTOH, when I lived in Laramie one of my hunting buddies had a Ford Ranger with the electric T-case and on very cold mornings (Laramie has a lot of cold mornings
) it would either be sluggish in shifting or would not shift at all until it warmed up.
Do a google search on transfer case shifting problems and you will find a lot more of them with the electric t-cases than with the manuals. Yes, even on Toyotas. It makes sense - they've added more complexity and more things that can break, so more things will break. Since most 4x4 users only use 4wd a tiny part of the time, the problem usually doesn't matter.
There are people who say that we've come to rely on electric windows, electric door locks, electrically controlled transmissions, computer controlled EFI, etc, and that adding one more electrical component doesn't make a big difference, but I don't neccessarily agree. My big gripe is that there is nothing wrong with having a manual T-case lever (although apparently some automotive designers think that levers are offensive to the eyes of the driving public) so having an electric t-case switch is "fixing" something that isn't broken, and it adds a potential point of failure to the vehicle that doesn't need to be there.
It's interesting to note that most of the heavy duty vehicles I've seen, used by contractors, the military, etc, do not use an electric t-case and use the old-fashioned manual lever. Same goes for vehicles destined for use in rugged, undeveloped countries.
In a perfect world we'd be able to get exactly the vehicle we wanted. Mine would be 3rd gen 4runner like the one I have, except that it would have a manual transmission, manual crank windows (though it would still have a power rear window) and locking hubs instead of the ADD.
Of course, we don't live in a perfect world and we have to buy "off the rack", which means we have to compromise on what we want vs what is available.
In my case, that I "settled" on a vehicle with an auto tranny (mostly for the wife), power windows (which I admit are nice when driving with the dog in the car because I can roll the window down so she can stick her head out the window and then roll it back up if it gets too cold), power door locks and the ADD. My manual t-case works fine, and I have no problem shifting in and out of 4wd as conditions warrant. I think some people who aren't familar with the ADD and the shift-on-the-fly T-case might be reluctant to shift from 2hi to 4hi while moving but I do it all the time in my 4runner and I did it all the time in my Tacoma, too.
When I was shopping for my new vehicle last year, I had decided on a 4th gen 4runner (2003 - 2009.) The electric T-case was a nagging point, but ultimately I figured that Toyota wouldn't have continued using it if they hadn't worked most of the bugs out. I still think this is the case - most manufacturers now use the electric T-case switch and I think for 99% of the users, 99% of the time it works fine.
I don't know if you saw this, but the new 2010 4runner actually went back to a manual t-case lever. I don't know if this was a cost-saving measure or if they went back to a simpler system based on user feedback. AFAIK it's the only time any manufacturer has gone from an electronic switch back to a manual lever, although I'd love to be wrong about that.
:sombrero:
This is a pet peeve of mine regarding newer 4x4s.
The only vehicle I ever had a problem shifting the manual T-case lever was my '71 Blazer. But then again, it had been rebuilt and otherwise messed with over its life (I owned it from '83 to '85) so it's not like it came that way from the factory.
OTOH, when I lived in Laramie one of my hunting buddies had a Ford Ranger with the electric T-case and on very cold mornings (Laramie has a lot of cold mornings
) it would either be sluggish in shifting or would not shift at all until it warmed up. Do a google search on transfer case shifting problems and you will find a lot more of them with the electric t-cases than with the manuals. Yes, even on Toyotas. It makes sense - they've added more complexity and more things that can break, so more things will break. Since most 4x4 users only use 4wd a tiny part of the time, the problem usually doesn't matter.
There are people who say that we've come to rely on electric windows, electric door locks, electrically controlled transmissions, computer controlled EFI, etc, and that adding one more electrical component doesn't make a big difference, but I don't neccessarily agree. My big gripe is that there is nothing wrong with having a manual T-case lever (although apparently some automotive designers think that levers are offensive to the eyes of the driving public) so having an electric t-case switch is "fixing" something that isn't broken, and it adds a potential point of failure to the vehicle that doesn't need to be there.
It's interesting to note that most of the heavy duty vehicles I've seen, used by contractors, the military, etc, do not use an electric t-case and use the old-fashioned manual lever. Same goes for vehicles destined for use in rugged, undeveloped countries.
In a perfect world we'd be able to get exactly the vehicle we wanted. Mine would be 3rd gen 4runner like the one I have, except that it would have a manual transmission, manual crank windows (though it would still have a power rear window) and locking hubs instead of the ADD.
Of course, we don't live in a perfect world and we have to buy "off the rack", which means we have to compromise on what we want vs what is available.
In my case, that I "settled" on a vehicle with an auto tranny (mostly for the wife), power windows (which I admit are nice when driving with the dog in the car because I can roll the window down so she can stick her head out the window and then roll it back up if it gets too cold), power door locks and the ADD. My manual t-case works fine, and I have no problem shifting in and out of 4wd as conditions warrant. I think some people who aren't familar with the ADD and the shift-on-the-fly T-case might be reluctant to shift from 2hi to 4hi while moving but I do it all the time in my 4runner and I did it all the time in my Tacoma, too.
When I was shopping for my new vehicle last year, I had decided on a 4th gen 4runner (2003 - 2009.) The electric T-case was a nagging point, but ultimately I figured that Toyota wouldn't have continued using it if they hadn't worked most of the bugs out. I still think this is the case - most manufacturers now use the electric T-case switch and I think for 99% of the users, 99% of the time it works fine.
I don't know if you saw this, but the new 2010 4runner actually went back to a manual t-case lever. I don't know if this was a cost-saving measure or if they went back to a simpler system based on user feedback. AFAIK it's the only time any manufacturer has gone from an electronic switch back to a manual lever, although I'd love to be wrong about that.
:sombrero:
Cackalak Han
Explorer
My old 98 4Runner Limited had intermittent issues with the push button 4WD. No matter what I did, it sometimes would not go into 4WD (drive forward, backward, rev the motor, etc.). I think there was a vaccum leak somewhere. The 02 4Runner never had major issues, but sometimes the 4WD icon would blink for quite a while before engaging.
My current Tacoma with a lever has never had issues. But I'm surprised to hear that a current Tacoma is having problems going into/out of 4Lo. Friend of mine with a 4th Gen 4Runner has never had issues with the 4WD system, either. If I were to get a newer Tacoma/4Runner, the push button (dial) system wouldn't concern me at all.
My current Tacoma with a lever has never had issues. But I'm surprised to hear that a current Tacoma is having problems going into/out of 4Lo. Friend of mine with a 4th Gen 4Runner has never had issues with the 4WD system, either. If I were to get a newer Tacoma/4Runner, the push button (dial) system wouldn't concern me at all.
WASURF63
Adventurer
Not trying to be funny. Just stating how we've gone from getting out of the cab vs the convienence of using all "in cab" controls.
I'm not confused about the differences. I obviously didn't explain what I was trying to say very well. Thanks for clearing that all up.
(At 00:30 in the morning I think I was the one with ADD); my bad. :victory:
Of course manually locking/unlocking the front hubs along with using a t-case shift lever shouldn't be confused with ADD and "shift on the fly".
Convenience doesn't always mean that's what you'd prefer either.
WS
Last edited: