Ram 1500 build ... should I even bother?

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Hello all. I am new to the forum, however, I have been stalking as a non-member for a long time....

Welcome, Olde_Kyng! You've got a great rig to adventure in. I hear you on that payload sticker being a concern, but remember that humans regularly go on multi-week long camping treks with no car at all (just a backpack), and they can fit everything they need in a very small payload. So, you may be less in a case of "my rig is too small" and more in a case of "I will need to compromise on what I classify as a 'need'". You can get a lot of miles of adventuring for the price of a vehicle upgrade, so there's merit in the "run what you brung" approach to this hobby unless your pockets are very deep. Here's some examples for you to think about:

- Improving approach angles is a good first start as you've identified that you've already skipped on some experiences because of that limitation. But, while you are probably Ok to skip on the winch, you will want to put some thought into how you will self recover (i.e. MaxTrax, a come-along, or similar) if you are crossing creeks or other obstacles solo. Usually beyond the small creek crossing is more rough terrain, and so once you "unlock" your ability to get a bit further in with an improved approach angle, you also increase the risk that you'll need to self recover while simultaneously decreasing the chances that someone else will come along to help. We tend to be a bit casual about this hobby but I think we are lulled into a false sense of safety by the quality of modern tech (the vehicles, InReach comms, etc.) to the point where we tend to forget that on some of these trips we are one error away from death - and that error can be something as simple as getting stuck with no way out.

- Improving approach angles is one of those "two birds, one stone" things in a build: You can improve approach angles while also enhancing recovery gear options (i.e. a winch or at least some anchor points for shackles) while also providing front-end animal strike protection, which is your most likely risk when in remote areas. However, an ARB bullbar is going to be 150-200 lbs or more, so you may want to consider sourcing an aluminum winch-ready bullbar for your truck. This will be more expensive but could save you 50% or more of the weight.

- There's been mention of an RTT. That will take away about 150 lbs from your payload. If you mount it on your cab, you're looking at another 25-75 lbs reduction for the mounting rails and hardware. If you go with a box rack (i.e. a Leitner or similar ladder-style rack), you're looking at 50-150 lbs or so for the rack, and if you are wanting to use a truck cap or sealed topper to mount the tent, you'd be looking at about 200 lbs + tent. A wedge camper is about 300 lbs dry weight, depending on which one you go with. All of these options reduce your useful payload:

• RTT + Cab Rack = 1025 lbs remaining
• RTT + Box Rack = 900 lbs remaining
• RTT + Truck Cap = 850 lbs remaining
• Wedge Camper = 900lbs remaining

- You mentioned a Decked unit - this will be about 200 lbs on it's own. You can probably build a comparable system out of wood for about 50 lbs less. Having drawers to keep your kit is really handy though - it allows you to be prepared to head out of civilization whenever you want. That's how we keep ours and it's great.

- One caution - I know a lot of people sleep in the bed of their truck under a cap, but I've got some experience with this and nobody ever talks about this part: It's dirty as hell. Truck boxes and caps are notoriously hard to seal, and all of them have some level of dust and water ingress. It's fine MOST of the time, but if you end up stuck behind a logging truck for a while, all that dust they kick up will at least partially cover your stuff. That means where you sleep is filthy, and that means you are filthy, and everything you touch gets dirty after the first night or two. For some people, that's no big deal - "its camping" - but for me, I tend to like longer trips (month or more) and for longer trips, constantly being dirty causes problems. I would prefer a ground tent over sleeping in a dirty truck bed. But, if you can get a good cap installed that helps limit this issue (none eliminate it but some are better), or if you don't tend to spend a lot of time in dry and dusty conditions, this might be a moot point for you.

So here's my opinion:

You can either improve your off-road worthiness with bumpers and recovery gear, improve the storage shell and sleeping experience of your truck, or improve your internal storage solutions - but you probably cannot do all three of the above with your current rig. I'd suggest you identify what's most important to you based on your activities: Are you more likely to meander down the trail all day long, seeing what you can see, and snapping photos? I would then probably prioritize the recovery gear and approach angles. Are you more likely to find that epic campsite and pitch up around the fire for a few days? You might want to consider how you "live around" your truck with a convenient storage solution for the cold beers and snacks and other camp essentials - a way to charge devices if needed, maybe an option to avoid the soggy mess caused by melting ice in coolers by going for a fridge, etc.. Or, are you wanting to ensure an easy-to-set-up, ground-conditions-irrelevant, guaranteed-good nights sleep as you go from non-technical location to non-technical location? Then you might want to prioritize a quick pitch tent/camper solution. If more than one of these things is deemed critical for you then you might want to consider a higher payload truck - but if you do, that comes with other compromises (total weight is much higher for example, as is cost) so it's not as obvious a solution as that either.

I'd suggest keep doing what you're doing - get out and use your current rig - and only if you are feeling truly limited (i.e. there's an experience you want but cannot have) should you invest in upgrades. The marketing in the Overland world is real - and it's really effective! - but the best adventures are often on a shoestring budget in a vehicle held together with chewing gum and faith so don't let the marketing hype get to you.

 

[NMNomad]

I am doing something similar with my Ram 1500. I put a new set of BFG K02's on. New Brakes and rotors all the way around. Bilstein 4600's go in on Friday. I'm looking for a camper shell on the used market. But, I may just have to bite the bullet and buy a new one. They seem to be few and far between. I like the look of the RSI Smartcaps and the side access. I'd be less picky if I could find something used. At that point I'll make a decision if I am going to purchase an RTT. I picked up a Gazelle tent for the wife and I. The kids can sleep in the truck bed or RTT. Hope your project comes together, and takes you on some great adventures.

 

[Tudor Tanase]

I've always kind of wondered what the appeal of an RTT is. Like you said, it's always attached to your vehicle, you have to climb in and out of it, more expensive than a ground tent and usually smaller. Ease of set up is what I always thought. But as you said, there are easy set up ground tents now. I'm not discounting RTT's, I've never used one so maybe there is something I'm missing. Maybe easier to level a vehicle than find level ground for a tent?

In a nutshell, crocodiles, snakes, jumping ants, caterpillars and such. At least where I live. Still, these days I prefer to sleep in the vehicle than on the vehicle. If your local fauna is less keen then IMHO a RTT loses much of its appeal.

 

[rruff]

In a nutshell, crocodiles, snakes, jumping ants, caterpillars and such. At least where I live. Still, these days I prefer to sleep in the vehicle than on the vehicle. If your local fauna is less keen then IMHO a RTT loses much of its appeal.

I started sleeping inside my vehicle after I heard large animals shuffling about in FL (alligators, maybe). I wasn't in a tent though, just sleeping in a bag on the ground. For the other things you mentioned, a ground tent would keep them out, too.

 

[Olde_Kyng]

Save the roof of the Leer for a rack and things that will matter a little less if they take a fall from that height. Queen size air mattress fit nicely, sleeping bags keeping us warm. Space under platform was the right height for a couple of short, long, wheeled totes. Stacked 2 deep in each channel. Used a woodworking clamp to grasp and pull out the front most tote.

Instead of a RTT, when you do the decked system in the back, consider a hard topper like a Leer, and bed down on top of the Decked system. Or build a frame of 2x4's and cover with plywood so you can roll some totes underneath and use that as a bed platform. A lot cheaper than Decked, and you can just yank it out when you want to use the rear for cargo. That will save you a lot of weight instead of the RTT. and as long as you have a 6.5 foot bed or longer, you wont really want for space, except for head space.

This is what I was initially leaning toward. My only hang up was just that I like to put things back in the bed of the truck (cooler and totes with gear in them) before we bed down for the night. I've never had any trouble with bears, but my dad was an eagle scout, so I had it beat into my head from a young age not to leave food and trash out. If I can make a lightweight drawer type system to keep the stuff from the totes in, I may be able to get by with this solution. I think a cap, something like the smart cap, and some sort of drawer system or a hybrid of platform and different totes may be our best option for staying under weight. Thanks for bringing this up, I think this is our best solution for the time being.

 

[Olde_Kyng]

First time I saw one I LOL'd... that ladder looks very precarious, and inconvenient. And especially with what Olde_Kyng and his wife weigh... no way. Being up high would be kinda nice I guess... but if you think that will protect you from predators, grizzlies won't have any trouble getting up there, and I don't think anything else is a threat. Grizzlies aren't a threat unless you are in their territory, which is quite small in the US. Am I missing something?

There are very nice ground tents these days that basically erect themselves. Sounds like a good way to go...

I agree with you about the rtt. It looks like it would be nice to be up off the ground out of the mud and (if applicable) away from predators. I have a feeling if we did get a rtt (assuming we didn't wake up to everything crashing down into the bed of the truck the first time we tried to sleep in it) it would get pretty old pretty quickly. I have a feeling after getting up to go pee in the middle of the night for the 10th time, I would be cursing.

The only big predators we have here in WV are black bears and possibly the occasional mountain lion (I have never seen a mountain lion, but I have heard of people seeing them). I've never had any issue with bears. Black bears are generally shy and tend to run off if you make a sufficient amount of noise. I worry about people more than anything else. Whatever the threat, 2 or 4 legged, I am always equipped to deal with the situation.

My main reason for wanting to get up off the ground is simply because taking down tents in the middle of a rain storm sucks. Several times last season we had to break camp to head home and it was raining, with no sign of letting up. It seems that no matter how careful you try to be, everything gets muddy. Then you have to get it all back out when you get home and dry everything out and clean up all the mud, and mildew if you can't get all your gear out for a week because it's still raining. We have 4 tents. The first is an old Edmund Hillary 4 person tent from sears that my dad and I camped in when I was in my early teens. The second is an old Eureka tent that we bought shortly after the first because that 4 person tent didn't do too well in heavy rain and wind. I like to be as light and compact as possible, so I bought a Nemo Dagger 3 person backpacking tent. I love it, but the wife wanted to be able to stand up and get dressed and such so I got a Marmot Torreya 6 person tent. The front porch area on that one seemed like a cool idea at the time (why I don't know, I'm always either sitting around the fire or under the tarp), but when you have to take that one down and it's muddy ... it's just a mess.

I have never tried to sleep in a hammock, but I was thinking about getting one of the cheaper ENO ones just to try it out. This could be a nice summer solution. I'm not even going to try to fool with one in the colder months though. Having to mess with an under quilt and all that jazz seems like way more hassle than it's worth. Not to mention, probably more bulky than just having a tent, sleeping pad, and good sleeping bag. May even weigh more, if you're comparing it to an ultra light backpacking tent and accoutrements.

 

[Olde_Kyng]

the light pop-ups like Four Wheel Camper are pretty well liked. I was thinking that a camper you can completely remove easily would make the most sense, since you want to use it for truck stuff. Scout is a non-popup that is pretty simple. It seems that old campers were often lighter than the newer ones, if you can find one in good shape.

I think this is the ultimate goal for us. I think a 2500 or 3500 with something like the OVRLND pop up camper would make a nice road trip/camping rig. I can't bring myself to pay 7-10% interest on a used vehicle and I can't afford, or won't afford rather, a brand new truck. I think we will stick to the mantra of Burt Gummer for the time being and just do "what we can with what we got", and wait for the right time and save up some money for the camper.

the axle ratings are usually a good limit.

Where does one find this information? Is it on a sticker somewhere or in the owners manual or somewhere else?

 

[Todd n Natalie]

I think this is the ultimate goal for us. I think a 2500 or 3500 with something like the OVRLND pop up camper would make a nice road trip/camping rig. I can't bring myself to pay 7-10% interest on a used vehicle and I can't afford, or won't afford rather, a brand new truck. I think we will stick to the mantra of Burt Gummer for the time being and just do "what we can with what we got", and wait for the right time and save up some money for the camper.

Where does one find this information? Is it on a sticker somewhere or in the owners manual or somewhere else?

Usually on a sticker on the drivers door frame.

 

[Olde_Kyng]

Welcome, Olde_Kyng! You've got a great rig to adventure in. I hear you on that payload sticker being a concern, but remember that humans regularly go on multi-week long camping treks with no car at all (just a backpack), and they can fit everything they need in a very small payload. So, you may be less in a case of "my rig is too small" and more in a case of "I will need to compromise on what I classify as a 'need'". You can get a lot of miles of adventuring for the price of a vehicle upgrade, so there's merit in the "run what you brung" approach to this hobby unless your pockets are very deep. Here's some examples for you to think about:

- Improving approach angles is a good first start as you've identified that you've already skipped on some experiences because of that limitation. But, while you are probably Ok to skip on the winch, you will want to put some thought into how you will self recover (i.e. MaxTrax, a come-along, or similar) if you are crossing creeks or other obstacles solo. Usually beyond the small creek crossing is more rough terrain, and so once you "unlock" your ability to get a bit further in with an improved approach angle, you also increase the risk that you'll need to self recover while simultaneously decreasing the chances that someone else will come along to help. We tend to be a bit casual about this hobby but I think we are lulled into a false sense of safety by the quality of modern tech (the vehicles, InReach comms, etc.) to the point where we tend to forget that on some of these trips we are one error away from death - and that error can be something as simple as getting stuck with no way out.

- Improving approach angles is one of those "two birds, one stone" things in a build: You can improve approach angles while also enhancing recovery gear options (i.e. a winch or at least some anchor points for shackles) while also providing front-end animal strike protection, which is your most likely risk when in remote areas. However, an ARB bullbar is going to be 150-200 lbs or more, so you may want to consider sourcing an aluminum winch-ready bullbar for your truck. This will be more expensive but could save you 50% or more of the weight.

- There's been mention of an RTT. That will take away about 150 lbs from your payload. If you mount it on your cab, you're looking at another 25-75 lbs reduction for the mounting rails and hardware. If you go with a box rack (i.e. a Leitner or similar ladder-style rack), you're looking at 50-150 lbs or so for the rack, and if you are wanting to use a truck cap or sealed topper to mount the tent, you'd be looking at about 200 lbs + tent. A wedge camper is about 300 lbs dry weight, depending on which one you go with. All of these options reduce your useful payload:

• RTT + Cab Rack = 1025 lbs remaining
• RTT + Box Rack = 900 lbs remaining
• RTT + Truck Cap = 850 lbs remaining
• Wedge Camper = 900lbs remaining

- You mentioned a Decked unit - this will be about 200 lbs on it's own. You can probably build a comparable system out of wood for about 50 lbs less. Having drawers to keep your kit is really handy though - it allows you to be prepared to head out of civilization whenever you want. That's how we keep ours and it's great.

- One caution - I know a lot of people sleep in the bed of their truck under a cap, but I've got some experience with this and nobody ever talks about this part: It's dirty as hell. Truck boxes and caps are notoriously hard to seal, and all of them have some level of dust and water ingress. It's fine MOST of the time, but if you end up stuck behind a logging truck for a while, all that dust they kick up will at least partially cover your stuff. That means where you sleep is filthy, and that means you are filthy, and everything you touch gets dirty after the first night or two. For some people, that's no big deal - "its camping" - but for me, I tend to like longer trips (month or more) and for longer trips, constantly being dirty causes problems. I would prefer a ground tent over sleeping in a dirty truck bed. But, if you can get a good cap installed that helps limit this issue (none eliminate it but some are better), or if you don't tend to spend a lot of time in dry and dusty conditions, this might be a moot point for you.

So here's my opinion:

You can either improve your off-road worthiness with bumpers and recovery gear, improve the storage shell and sleeping experience of your truck, or improve your internal storage solutions - but you probably cannot do all three of the above with your current rig. I'd suggest you identify what's most important to you based on your activities: Are you more likely to meander down the trail all day long, seeing what you can see, and snapping photos? I would then probably prioritize the recovery gear and approach angles. Are you more likely to find that epic campsite and pitch up around the fire for a few days? You might want to consider how you "live around" your truck with a convenient storage solution for the cold beers and snacks and other camp essentials - a way to charge devices if needed, maybe an option to avoid the soggy mess caused by melting ice in coolers by going for a fridge, etc.. Or, are you wanting to ensure an easy-to-set-up, ground-conditions-irrelevant, guaranteed-good nights sleep as you go from non-technical location to non-technical location? Then you might want to prioritize a quick pitch tent/camper solution. If more than one of these things is deemed critical for you then you might want to consider a higher payload truck - but if you do, that comes with other compromises (total weight is much higher for example, as is cost) so it's not as obvious a solution as that either.

I'd suggest keep doing what you're doing - get out and use your current rig - and only if you are feeling truly limited (i.e. there's an experience you want but cannot have) should you invest in upgrades. The marketing in the Overland world is real - and it's really effective! - but the best adventures are often on a shoestring budget in a vehicle held together with chewing gum and faith so don't let the marketing hype get to you.

Thanks for the warm welcome! This really put things into perspective for me. I have much pondering to do.

 

[Olde_Kyng]

Usually on a sticker on the drivers door frame.

The sticker I posted on my first post is the only sticker in the door frame. It says "see owners manual for additional information". Probably somewhere in there I would guess. I'll check when I leave work today.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

The sticker I posted on my first post is the only sticker in the door frame. It says "see owners manual for additional information". Probably somewhere in there I would guess. I'll check when I leave work today.

Ah okay. I guess Ram's are different than Fords. Maybe the glove box? GM's used to have axle ratio etc info on a sticker in the glovebox years ago. Not sure if they still do.

 

[rruff]

My main reason for wanting to get up off the ground is simply because taking down tents in the middle of a rain storm sucks. Several times last season we had to break camp to head home and it was raining, with no sign of letting up. It seems that no matter how careful you try to be, everything gets muddy.

That's a good point.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I agree with you about the rtt. It looks like it would be nice to be up off the ground out of the mud and (if applicable) away from predators. I have a feeling if we did get a rtt (assuming we didn't wake up to everything crashing down into the bed of the truck the first time we tried to sleep in it) it would get pretty old pretty quickly. I have a feeling after getting up to go pee in the middle of the night for the 10th time, I would be cursing.

The only big predators we have here in WV are black bears and possibly the occasional mountain lion (I have never seen a mountain lion, but I have heard of people seeing them). I've never had any issue with bears. Black bears are generally shy and tend to run off if you make a sufficient amount of noise. I worry about people more than anything else. Whatever the threat, 2 or 4 legged, I am always equipped to deal with the situation.

My main reason for wanting to get up off the ground is simply because taking down tents in the middle of a rain storm sucks. Several times last season we had to break camp to head home and it was raining, with no sign of letting up. It seems that no matter how careful you try to be, everything gets muddy. Then you have to get it all back out when you get home and dry everything out and clean up all the mud, and mildew if you can't get all your gear out for a week because it's still raining. We have 4 tents. The first is an old Edmund Hillary 4 person tent from sears that my dad and I camped in when I was in my early teens. The second is an old Eureka tent that we bought shortly after the first because that 4 person tent didn't do too well in heavy rain and wind. I like to be as light and compact as possible, so I bought a Nemo Dagger 3 person backpacking tent. I love it, but the wife wanted to be able to stand up and get dressed and such so I got a Marmot Torreya 6 person tent. The front porch area on that one seemed like a cool idea at the time (why I don't know, I'm always either sitting around the fire or under the tarp), but when you have to take that one down and it's muddy ... it's just a mess.

I have never tried to sleep in a hammock, but I was thinking about getting one of the cheaper ENO ones just to try it out. This could be a nice summer solution. I'm not even going to try to fool with one in the colder months though. Having to mess with an under quilt and all that jazz seems like way more hassle than it's worth. Not to mention, probably more bulky than just having a tent, sleeping pad, and good sleeping bag. May even weigh more, if you're comparing it to an ultra light backpacking tent and accoutrements.

You aren't really avoiding striking the tent with an RTT, just, the tent itself may be easier to strike but you are doing it 7 feet in the air. While its raining...

you are really only avoiding mud and snakes and scorpions in an RTT. Mountain lion, I could imagine could climb a ladder maybe? I black bears (we have them in my back yard regularly), as you say. Would prefer to avoid you. n the back bed with tailgate and hard topper is still better in my humble opinion.

Could always put coolers and stuff in the cab of the truck while you sleep, that's what we did. We put ours in the back seat.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

You aren't really avoiding striking the tent with an RTT, just, the tent itself may be easier to strike but you are doing it 7 feet in the air. While its raining...

you are really only avoiding mud and snakes and scorpions in an RTT. Mountain lion, I could imagine could climb a ladder maybe? I black bears (we have them in my back yard regularly), as you say. Would prefer to avoid you. n the back bed with tailgate and hard topper is still better in my humble opinion.

Could always put coolers and stuff in the cab of the truck while you sleep, that's what we did. We put ours in the back seat.

Not specific to you Thundabeagle, but there's been a running discussion in this thread about RTT and Ground Tents, and I don't want to derail things further but it seems relevant to OP's question as he decides on how he'll build his rig. As a fella whose used both for a really long time (RTT in our 4x4, ground tent on any of my motorbike trips), I will say that the RTT provides for an all-round cleaner experience in the wet and mud. The nature of the ground tent means that mud and debris is constantly being splashed against the walls of the tent during the storm, and if there's any overland flooding of water and the ground tenter failed to make a water trench, the floor of the tent can get quite muddy. When packing the tent up, it's almost a necessity that it will be on the muddy ground a fair bit as you wrestle it into it's sack. And then, all the wet muddy bits end up in the same stuff sack as anything that did manage to stay dry and clean, so by the next evening the whole thing is wet and dirty. With the RTT, all of that is avoided. I have put away my RTT in frog-strangling rain, and while it wasn't as pleasant as doing it in the dry, the contents of the tent stayed dry and things stayed clean.

It does provide limited animal protection in that the odds are good an animal would not reach the level of the tent without alerting the occupants - it's less that they cannot reach me, and more that I would have a few moments notice before they did. I've never been eaten by a mountain lion or a bear in either my RTT or my ground tent so the jury is still out on this anecdote but I have had bear run ins and the RTT provided a feeling of security that the ground tent does not.

And finally, it allows for a much more versatile camping platform - roots, rocks, anthills, critter nests - these all become irrelevant in an RTT. All that matters is that the tires are roughly level (and I mean "roughly" - I've had visible angles to the vehicle that I didn't notice when sleeping) and you'll have a place to stay for the night. Most RTTs spend the majority of their time folded on the roof and ruining gas mileage for the aesthetic because of the marketing hype I mentioned in my other comment, but they are also pretty versatile and my preferred lodging when travelling.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Not specific to you Thundabeagle, but there's been a running discussion in this thread about RTT and Ground Tents, and I don't want to derail things further but it seems relevant to OP's question as he decides on how he'll build his rig. As a fella whose used both for a really long time (RTT in our 4x4, ground tent on any of my motorbike trips), I will say that the RTT provides for an all-round cleaner experience in the wet and mud. The nature of the ground tent means that mud and debris is constantly being splashed against the walls of the tent during the storm, and if there's any overland flooding of water and the ground tenter failed to make a water trench, the floor of the tent can get quite muddy. When packing the tent up, it's almost a necessity that it will be on the muddy ground a fair bit as you wrestle it into it's sack. And then, all the wet muddy bits end up in the same stuff sack as anything that did manage to stay dry and clean, so by the next evening the whole thing is wet and dirty. With the RTT, all of that is avoided. I have put away my RTT in frog-strangling rain, and while it wasn't as pleasant as doing it in the dry, the contents of the tent stayed dry and things stayed clean.

It does provide limited animal protection in that the odds are good an animal would not reach the level of the tent without alerting the occupants - it's less that they cannot reach me, and more that I would have a few moments notice before they did. I've never been eaten by a mountain lion or a bear in either my RTT or my ground tent so the jury is still out on this anecdote but I have had bear run ins and the RTT provided a feeling of security that the ground tent does not.

And finally, it allows for a much more versatile camping platform - roots, rocks, anthills, critter nests - these all become irrelevant in an RTT. All that matters is that the tires are roughly level (and I mean "roughly" - I've had visible angles to the vehicle that I didn't notice when sleeping) and you'll have a place to stay for the night. Most RTTs spend the majority of their time folded on the roof and ruining gas mileage for the aesthetic because of the marketing hype I mentioned in my other comment, but they are also pretty versatile and my preferred lodging when travelling.

Hi Chasing. I think I agree with you that you avoid mud and certain critters with RTT. And to your point, roots, rocks, and ant hills too, sure. You're right about all that.


I'd like to try one sometime, but I guess I'm really supportive of the fiberglass topper idea and comparing it to that. On a Subaru, sure, go RTT. With a truck that literally and figuratively has a "bed" in the back, I guess I just find the Leer topper bed camping hard to beat for the money. I may have to shuffle my cooler around nightly, but it works for me. Just my own experience and opinion.