Ram 3500 with 6.4L Hemi or not?

[jeep-N-montero]

I understood your statement, I just respectfully disagree. If I wasn't pulling a 20 to 25k trailer I'd be driving a gasser.

I mostly tow our boat that only weighs about 6k with our diesel but enjoy setting the cruise at 70 without ever having to downshift on hills and still get 15mpg. And by hills I mean mountains, we pass the gassers all the time and can't imagine towing through the hills with a gas engine.

 

[drewactual]

google a TQ graph for both, and the answer is clear for your purposes. the diesel enters its curve off idle, the hemi not until above 3K rpm.. other than the leverage of taller gears, they'll help you reach and stay around the bottom of the curve and have it on immediate tap when you need it...

people argue this, and I don't care to type something that goes against populare opinion, but what you burn in extra RPM's in a gasser, if done right actually saves more than what you'd burn with a higher geared rig, and is most evident on a vacuum level. there is zero chance i'd rec a 3500 gasser with anything less than 4.10:1 axle ratio's, and that is with stock height tires.

the diesel has a torque curve off idle, and it's huge- over a thousand RPMs wide and looks like a plateau on a graph.... it isn't going to be worked hard at all at the loads you're describing, but it will work hard enough to keep it from wet stacking or clogging up... using pyro and exhaust back pressure as a measure similar to gassers using vacuum signal, it will do what you want it to, but be able to do it with much higher axle gears- having plenty of grunt to not 'require' the leverage of gears...

so it seems to me you're in the crease or seam (football terms for zone coverage where defender responsibility is passed from one player to the next and which if the offense discovers, can exploit during the passing of responsibility)... the response you're likely looking for is this from my opinion: If you choose gas, go with leverage and make the 4.10:1 at minimum w/stock height tires... if diesel you can rely on the grunt and go with higher gears- those two trucks will behave similar on the road- the gasser better off road, the diesel better for long hauls. If you're looking to lift the truck or put larger diameter tires on it at any point, the only logical choice you have is the diesel with the lower geared axles... or, to regear the gasser to 4.56:1 axle ratio at a minimum to 5.12:1 at most, with 4.88:1 at likely optimum.

 

[NorCalHawk]

Great impute and thanks for your opinions and expertise. Yes, I have driven both, but without a load in the bed. True, the mpg ratings between gas and diesel are closer than ever. I think the resale with the CTD is valid, but its a 9K$ option up front. Then a gas engine is 9K$ cheaper...its a wash. Maintenance cost is another issue to consider. Higher with CTD. Both seem plenty powerful. The 2500 is also labeled as HD.

With my set up, camper on all the time, should I be concerned about the rear coil springs on the 2500HD. Again the payload is rated at ~3000# (gas), but with all this weight, ALL the time resting on the springs?? I would like to avoid airbags, but don't want rear end sag either. Leafs would shine better(?), but then I would need to step up to the 3500HD (CTD/6.4L?).

With CTD you can op for another 5gal fuel tank (36 gal total). Gas does not allow this (31 gal total). Heavy slide in campers are not recommended for trucks having lower (<2500#?) payloads, but we see this all the time. There is a "pamphlet" in the glove box for the new Rams that states whether this specific truck is recommended for a slide-in camper. Again, its all about payload. The more weigh you put on/in a truck the less your payload will be, eg. the Ram Power Wagon is a 2500HD, but the payload is ~14-1500# (cuz of heavy bumpers, winch, etc., etc.

Back to my question: should I be concerned if my truck has the rear coil spring suspension, even though the payload is 3000# and I haul 2000+# 24/7?

 

[Halligan]

Once again the age old gas vs. diesel debate. Here's my $.02 worth. I've owned gas and diesel, 3 Cummins powered 2500's and my current 6.4 gas Power Wagon. Let me be crystal clear, I love diesel's, I'm a truck guy. I have a CDL and over the years I've driven the big boy's. Detroit Diesels 6-71's 8v71's, 6v92's, Cummins 5.9, N-14, ISM, Caterpillar C-13, International DT466, Maxxforce9 and some others I can't remember. Again I love diesels, mostly older diesels though.

I'm currently in charge of a fleet of diesels and hand's down the most reliable ones are the older pre emission engines. The newer ones are total assaches between injectors, ECM's, and other bullcrap.

Todays modern diesel are extremely complicated works of engineering. The are not the simple diesel engine of 15 years ago. Emissions have crippled the reliability of the modern diesel engine. It started with introduction of the high pressure common rail injection, then came exhaust gas recirculation, then came diesel particulate filters, add urea injection and all the associated components and they just are not as reliable as they used to be.

I wish I never sold my last diesel powered truck. It was a 2004 5.9 Cummins with 305hp and 555tq. It pulled my fifth wheel camper just fine with those wimpy (by todays standard)power levels. I wish I didn't sell it because the same truck today in good conditions is selling for $20,000-25,000 dollars. They command top dollar today because they are more reliable than todays diesels and are much simpler to work on.

For what you listed as a truck requirement I would get the 3500srw with the 6.4 hemi. The only big difference between a 2500 and 3500 is the leaf vs. coil spring, and of course the trucks GVW. The gasser will be cheaper up front and in the long run. Like I said, I love diesels but since I sold my aforementioned Cummins I won't touch them now. Unless you tow heavy frequently they are not worth the money and headaches.

 

[Halligan]

One more thing, just hit up any forum that discusses the big 3 diesel engines and read the threads about with the problems people are having with the DPF systems and the urea injection systems.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

Halligan nailed it with his last 2 posts!
I would get the 3500 with 4.10 gears and the 6.4 hemi.
Good luck.

 

[BruiserCruiser]

A gas engine doesn't belong in an HD chassis no matter how much a dealer lies about it, the diesel will tow better, get better mpg, and better resale value. It's a no brainer.

That's a pretty narrow point of view.

Norcalhawk, I think you'll be fine with the 6.4 it has plenty of power. If you check some of the Ram forums there are plenty of guys towing 10k lbs plus trailers and fifth wheels with their 6.4's and no problems. The MPG difference between the diesel and gas engine isn't enough to justify the costs.

 

[RedF]

For my money, I'd buy the gas engine - no contest.

 

[dnorrell]

With CTD you can op for another 5gal fuel tank (36 gal total). Gas does not allow this (31 gal total).

I was of the impression the extra 5 gallons was actually just the DEF tank, or so it was when I had my 2014 6.7. At least, I'm almost positive

The reason I'm going 6.4 Hemi on our next truck is because I won't be towing heavy and I want the flexibility to travel the length of Baja and not fret about dirty diesel. USLD gets almost impossible to find in Mexico. If you ever think you might want to set up your sweet FWC on a sandy southern beach and load up on cheap tacos, going gas will give you more flexibility over the new diesels. $0.02

 

[Rovertrader]

Engine wise: The gassers have evolved since '68 when the first round of emissions created the 'air pump', then '75 cats were mandated. Point being, gassers have had near 50 years of emission evolution/research/refinement, and are amazing today while being considerably more environmentally friendly. Also, realize the HP wars of the late 60's and early70's cannot hold a candle to todays powerplants.
Conversely, diesels have been for sake of discussion, placed with emission regs only since '08. There are still experimenting and refining- and not close to matching pre-emission mpg/reliability.

Spring/suspension: leafs by design are stronger and carry more weight longer and safer. Conversely, coils can carry considerable weight, typically ride better, but also don't last 'forever'. I've built Land Rovers for 25 years, and they have ton model Defenders- but at that level, the articulation is very limited, and the ride sacrifices a bit. But, the bigger issue is the springs have maybe a 50k mile life. Not a game changer, but a consideration.

I loved my PW, was an '07 with UTE bed, but the mpg was horrible!! Never saw double digits- and drove coast to coast twice- ouch!! I would -and have- considered a new one with the new 6.4 and whatever it is- 8 speed I think.
To your dilemma, go the 3500 gasser, forget about the inherent issues of modern diesels and potential coil failure. Peace of mind when exploring remotely is key, and you have the ability to circumvent big potential issues by choosing the right boxes going in. Enjoy!!
Cheers

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

I'm on my second HD Hemi, and I really love the combo. My 2004 was the 5.7 with 35" tires and 3.73 gears, and I'll admit it was a pinch underpowered at times, but it never worried me. My 2012 Power Wagon with the 4.56 gears and 34" tires is awesome. I have no doubt that the 6.4L Hemi mated with 4.10 gears will do everything you need and more. If I towed something heavy or put a lot of miles on my truck I might look at a CTD, but my truck is my daily driver, and I only drive about 6 miles to work and then 6 miles home, so the CTD just wasn't the right truck for me. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Littlehouse]

Larry, paging Larry... debate on gas vs. diesel. "I do actually like his well thought out views on this"

 

[driller]

I was going through the same dilemma that you are going through last year. I ended up with the 2500 6.4 hemi 3.73 ratio. I love this truck. I tow a 5th wheel with my razor behind it. You have to get used to the downshift and higher revs when pulling the big passes. MPG is 4 mpg lower than my 2001 cummins but the comfort and control is worlds apart. empty I average 16 to 18 highway with the hemi. I also have a northstar TC850SC that we use and the truck hardly cares its there. My camper fully loaded for trips is 2400lbs. Rear end settled 2 inches with the camper on. I know I made the right decision with this truck, sometimes i just make up somewhere to go just to drive it. If i could do it over i would get the 4.`0 ratio but i would still get the 6.4

 

[legendaryandrew]

That's impressive! Wish dodges 6.4 put out the same numbers or better than gms new 6.2 lol its more powerful than my 8.1 &#128559;

 

[skyfree]

I thought the new Power Wagon with a FWC Hawk would be an awesome overlanding rig. Add air bags and you are good to go. Here's a page with links to a Power Wagon and heavy Hallmark camper on the Overland Expo 2013 course. I know it is not rated to carry the weight you have, but the consensus in the TC world is that as long as the tires, axle, brakes, and frame are rated for the weight, suspension mods will get you up to that maximum, which for a SRW will be 4,000 lbs with appropriate tires.

As for the gas/diesel debate, I have a 2012 F350 DRW with 6.2 gas and 3.73 gears hauling a 4,800 lb (all up with water and gear) Arctic Fox 990. The engine handles mostly everything with ease, except steeper grades at altitude. It's a non-turbo engine, so get up to 8,000+ ft and the power drops. That's the main reason I would ever want a diesel, but the maintenance scares me away. I do my own oil changes with this truck so it is super economical to own. MPG ranges from 10 with the truck camper on to 14.5 average unloaded. Highway can be right around 15 if I keep my foot out of it, but remember this is a dually so you would get better with the 6.4 Ram SRW. The 6.4 also has cylinder deactivation I believe, which the Ford does not. Best I can tell this gets you about a 1 MPG advantage.