Ram Chassis Cab vs 3500 Pickup for next vehicle? Input needed! For flatbed truck camper.

[GeorgeHayduke]

A gas truck will have a higher GVWR.

A diesel truck will get ~20% better fuel economy.

A diesel will need extra maintenance with fuel filters, water separators, DEF refills, and eventually the emissions equipment (unless you delete the equipment). If you delete it, your fuel economy will increase, depending on the tune, and the time between your oil intervals will increase as well.

A gas truck will be quite.

A diesel will have a distinctive smell from the DEF.


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These are all great points to consider that I agree with except the GVWR comment is not correct. Diesel Ram 3500 pickups get higher GVWR than equivalent gas trucks. They actually end up with close to the same payload. I would also point out that diesels will do better at high altitudes because of the turbo but worse in cold weather than a gasser.

 

[GeorgeHayduke]

Maybe best to just read GVWR and payload numbers right from Ram's spec sheets.

3500 chassis cab: https://www.ramtrucks.com/BodyBuild...jGgHzAHGUTU0WB3rWuqSY7YmQ2vEhuBWBM9XCogFXoTm

3500 pickups: https://www.ramtrucks.com/BodyBuild...jGgHzAHGUTU0WB3rWuqSY7YmQ2vEhuBWBFy6Od5Hdu/D

I think you'll see that the diesel has a greater GVWR than gas in SRW applications and a universally higher GCWR.

 

[ttengineer]

These are all great points to consider that I agree with except the GVWR comment is not correct. Diesel Ram 3500 pickups get higher GVWR than equivalent gas trucks. They actually end up with close to the same payload. I would also point out that diesels will do better at high altitudes because of the turbo but worse in cold weather than a gasser.

I mean payload. Not towing. The towing capacity of a diesel is greater but a gas engine has more room for higher payload due to the lighter engine block. And with a flat bed, that matters.


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[GeorgeHayduke]

I mean payload. Not towing. The towing capacity of a diesel is greater but a gas engine has more room for higher payload due to the lighter engine block. And with a flat bed, that matters.


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Payload is GVWR minus the vehicle weight. If you look at the spec sheets I posted you'll see GVWR for SRW 3500 diesel pickup is 800 or 900 pounds higher than equivalent gas trucks, which is why they end up with basically the same payload. This is also the exact opposite situation of your original claim that gas trucks have higher GVWR than diesel.

 

[ramblinChet]

Here are the payload numbers from 2021. GAS is 6.4L Hemi, DIE is standard 6.7L Cummins, and DIE HO is high output 6.7L Cummins.

RAM 2500 4X4 REGULAR CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX (GAS 3.7k / DIE 2.8k)
RAM 2500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 6'4" BOX (GAS 3.4k / DIE 2.5k)
RAM 2500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN W/ RAMBOX (GAS 3.2k / DIE 2.4k)
RAM 2500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX (GAS 3.1k / DIE 2.2k)
RAM 3500 4X4 MEGA CAB: BIG HORN / LONE STAR 6'4" BOX SRW (GAS 4.3k / DIE 4.3k / DIE HO 4.1k)
RAM 3500 4X4 MEGA CAB: BIG HORN / LONE STAR 6'4" BOX DRW (GAS 6.6k / DIE 5.7k / DIE HO 5.5k)
RAM 3500 4X4 MEGA CAB: BIG HORN / LONE STAR W/ RAMBOX (GAS 4.3k / DIE 4.1k / DIE HO 4.0k)
RAM 3500 4X4 REGULAR CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX SRW (GAS 4.6k / DIE 4.5k / DIE HO 4.4k)
RAM 3500 4X4 REGULAR CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX DRW (GAS 7.2k / DIE 6.4k / DIE HO 6.1k)
RAM 3500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 6'4" BOX (GAS 4.3k / DIE 4.3k / DIE HO 4.0k)
RAM 3500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN W/ RAMBOX (GAS 4.1k / DIE 4.1k / DIE HO 3.9k)
RAM 3500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX SRW (GAS 4.5k / DIE 4.5k / DIE HO 4.3k)
RAM 3500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX DRW (GAS 6.7k / DIE 5.9k / DIE HO 5.6k)

It looks like the gas engine wins most every time while there are a few ties with the non-HO engine. Sometimes the difference is only a few hundred pounds whereas other times it is around 1/2 ton. GAS wins 69% of the time while GAS and DIE tie 31%. Diesel never carries more payload when compared to gas. I guess is really depends upon your individual package.

 

[ttengineer]

Payload is GVWR minus the vehicle weight. If you look at the spec sheets I posted you'll see GVWR for SRW 3500 diesel pickup is 800 or 900 pounds higher than equivalent gas trucks, which is why they end up with basically the same payload. This is also the exact opposite situation of your original claim that gas trucks have higher GVWR than diesel.

Perhaps it has changed then recently.

Traditionally, a gas engine HD truck has always had a higher payload than a diesel due to the weight difference in the motors. Which is why a lot of folks who have camper shells/slide in campers/flatbeds have chosen the gas engine.


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[Trestle]

Gas usually has a notable higher payload in the 2500s, but not as much of a difference in the 3500s. RAM ups the GVWR in the 3500s to accommodate the additional weight of the heavier engine. They do not do this with the 2500. A lot of this has to do with the 2500s being on coils (more compliant ride, but narrower range per spring weight), and the 3500s being on leafs (not as compliant of a ride in full range of load, but broader load ranges if built correctly). Also it is just the way RAM chose to go to market. Since the OP started this thread asking specifically about 3500s, it is less confusing if we do not mix up the two and make generalizations about the mixed two versus the chassis in question. It is certainly helpful to list it out though, as R.Chet did above. Curious what adding in 3500 tradesman SRW for the same configurations would be (comparatively) with the Cab and Chassis frame. Since I already went that route, I’m too lazy to do the work though .

Generally speaking, across both platforms, the more features you put into a truck, the more it erodes your payload. More materials, goodies, etc. the more payload moved from carrying capacity to base truck.

As per usual, the devil is in the details.

The reality of this situation may change, but ordering what you want is going to be a long wait. Finding something similar to what you wan on a lot is the fastest option. I have a cab/chassis on order since March ‘22, it was finally built in early September, and has been sitting in a transportation log jam in Mexico ever since. On another forum, specific to Ram HD trucks, this is and has been the norm this year. Getting updates from RAM is frustrating at best, and the dealers are only marginally less in the dark on what is going on. I’m sure the pending railroad strike will make things worse, and the recall on the 68RE transmission keeps all the Cummins non-HO or non Cab/Chassis trucks at the dealer, unseeable until RAM comes up with a fix for the recall and the dealers implement it. So if going to a lot, pricing will likely reflect that scarcity even more than it already has as of late.

Not sure how I feel about ordering a 22 truck in march, and taking delivery in 23, but I have a tray and camper sitting in the driveway already. Yeah, the neighbors love me.

Perhaps you will luck into the truck setup you want, but plan to sit back for a while if ordering one today.

 

[ThePartyWagon]

This thread has gone off the rails a bit.

What I want to know is the differences between the C&C 2500 frame and a standard 2500 pickup frame.

I've been told there are frame rail length differences and I've seen a few references to different cab to axle measurements, can anyone confirm?

Thanks!

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

This thread has gone off the rails a bit.

What I want to know is the differences between the C&C 2500 frame and a standard 2500 pickup frame.

I've been told there are frame rail length differences and I've seen a few references to different cab to axle measurements, can anyone confirm?

Thanks!

The differences between the C&C and Standard frames are beat to death in this thread.

Start at page one and put in an ounce of effort and youll find all your answers

 

[ThePartyWagon]

The differences between the C&C and Standard frames are beat to death in this thread.

Start at page one and put in an ounce of effort and youll find all your answers

Thanks for your super helpful comment, I've read through the thread twice and no one mentions specific frame rail lengths/measurements for, or differences between, a cab/chassis 2500 vs. PU 2500.

General differences between C&C vs. PU 3500+ trucks are beat to death in this thread, that's not what I'm asking for.

 

[1000arms]

... What I want to know is the differences between the C&C 2500 frame and a standard 2500 pickup frame.

I've been told there are frame rail length differences and I've seen a few references to different cab to axle measurements, can anyone confirm?

Thanks!

A 250/2500 should be a pickup truck frame. A 350/3500 could be a pickup truck frame or a chassis cab frame.

Pickup truck frames and chassis cab frames have different shapes.

The article is about 2017+ Ford trucks, but the images of the frames should help you: https://www.truckcampermagazine.com/news/2017-ford-super-duty-trucks-announced/ The fully-boxed frames are pickup truck frames. The frame with the "c-channel" sections (NOT fully-boxed) is for the chassis cab.

The pickup frames and chassis cab frames are different. Pickup frames usually require a bed, OEM or aftermarket, designed for that particular frame. Chassis cab frames are "more standardized" allowing businesses to much more easily source and swap truck beds/boxes/... than pickup frames.

 

[ThePartyWagon]

Pickup truck frames and chassis cab frames have different shapes.

The article is about 2017+ Ford trucks, but the images of the frames should help you: https://www.truckcampermagazine.com/news/2017-ford-super-duty-trucks-announced/

The fully-boxed frames are pickup truck frames. The frame with the "c-channel" sections (NOT fully-boxed) is for the chassis cab.

The pickup frames and chassis cab frames are different. Pickup frames usually require a bed, OEM or aftermarket, designed for that particular frame. Chassis cab frames are "more standardized" allowing businesses to much more easily source and swap truck beds/boxes/... than pickup frames.

Do manufacturer's sell standard trucks with factory beds removed, as opposed to a C&C? I'm not a truck guy so I'm not familiar with all of the options. I've got a truck we're going to be working on that was purchased without a bed but it does not have the straight C-channel frame, just a standard boxed frame from the looks of it. The customer is calling it a C&C. They brought the truck by today and the frame length matches that of a standard 8' 2500 truck. Maybe the dealership is telling them its a C&C truck when really it's just a standard 2500 with the bed removed by the factory? I've been stuck between a customer who doesn't understand what they are talking about, but thinks they're experts, and information I can find online. No one can provide a factory build sheet on a brand new '22 truck apparently. Today was the first day we've seen the truck and we assumed a C&C truck was showing up but that's not the case. I can't find any details on a 2500 C&C either, looks like it's only 3500+ trucks

Thanks,

 

[1000arms]

Do manufacturer's sell standard trucks with factory beds removed, as opposed to a C&C? I'm not a truck guy so I'm not familiar with all of the options. I've got a truck we're going to be working on that was purchased without a bed but it does not have the straight C-channel frame, just a standard boxed frame from the looks of it. The customer is calling it a C&C. They brought the truck by today and the frame length matches that of a standard 8' 2500 truck. Maybe the dealership is telling them its a C&C truck when really it's just a standard 2500 with the bed removed by the factory? I've been stuck between a customer who doesn't understand what they are talking about, but thinks they're experts, and information I can find online. No one can provide a factory build sheet on a brand new '22 truck apparently. Today was the first day we've seen the truck and we assumed a C&C truck was showing up but that's not the case. I can't find any details on a 2500 C&C either, looks like it's only 3500+ trucks

Thanks,

A new pickup truck without the bed, ordered by a dealer or a customer, is often referred to as a box-delete.

A 250/2500 should be a pickup truck frame. A 350/3500 could be a pickup truck frame or a chassis cab frame.

 

[Overdrive]

Do manufacturer's sell standard trucks with factory beds removed, as opposed to a C&C? ... I've got a truck we're going to be working on that was purchased without a bed...The customer is calling it a C&C.

I don't know what brand or year your customer has, but RAM used to call their 2500 box-delete a C&C, which could be found on their website along with the 3500, 4500, 5500. On the 2500 only, when you looked at the CA dimension, it was the same as a pickup--but the 3500's and up were 60" CA or 84" CA. So maybe that's where the customer and many dealers get the (wrong) terminology from.

I just checked RAM's website and they no longer list the 2500 as a C&C.

 

[Zuber]

On the RAMS, the difference between the PU and the CC is:

PU (2500/3500) is box frame and the width is 42" on the outside rails. There are brackets from the original bed (deleted or not). Removing an 8ft bed can replace with a 7 x 8 1/2 ft flat bed or smaller. A 35" tire will fit under the rear. Fuel tanks are in the 35 gallon range. Bolting on a flatbed is a bit of a pain. You use the original brackets for the PU bed or have to weld something on to the side of the bed. Possible, but not for the average fabricator.

CC (3500 up) is a channel and the width is 33.8" to match all other CC trucks from Ford/GM. The channel is very flat, with nothing mounted above the rails. No tire will fit underneath. The fuel tanks are 22 gal under the cab or 50 gal between the rails at the rear, Or both for the Diesel for 70+ gallons for about 900-1400 miles of range. Mounting a flat bed is very easy. Many beds to choose from because of the universal design for all the big three: RAM, GM, Ford. Many holes are available through the channel frame. Flatbeds have matching rails that sit on the trucks rails.

All this info and much, much, much more is on line.

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